Science Vs Religion

Science Vs Religion

Neither the Bible nor the Quran, with all the supposed knowledge and predictions about man’s destiny, was able to predict the moon landing or the newest Mars landing? Just not important enough for god to mention I wonder?

As Neil Degrasse Tyson said; there are the 3 phases of Scientific Truth – First people deny it, Secondly, they say it conflicts with the bible, and thirdly they say they knew it all along.

I always shake my head in amazement when some passage or other is trotted out as scientific evidence and it clearly has no scientific merit, but only desperate wishful thinking by fundies trying to remain relevant in today’s world.

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Comments (263)

  1. 29A

    The Neil Degrasse Tyson quote reminds me of a Schopenhauer quote: ’All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ’

    August 11, 2012
    1. JumperK

      Neil may have paraphrased, but in the end it is no less true. I should be more familiar with Schopenhauer; my education is lacking, time to sort that out.

      August 11, 2012
    2. thetruthmakesnosound

      Science is only ‘self-evident’ until science reconfirms its’ findings or proves new "self evident’ truth. Science evolves.

      May 26, 2016
      1. JumperK

        Science evolves and increases our knowledge; unlike a belief in gods/god.

        May 27, 2016
      2. 29A

        Scientific statements are only ever tentative.
        .
        Scientific hypotheses are especially tentative; with scientific theories, the overarching framework usually remains the same, although the details may be revised.

        May 27, 2016
        1. JumperK

          I am not sure why so many find that difficult to understand.

          May 27, 2016
  2. rebel62

    Religion 0 Science 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,…and still counting.

    May 08, 2013
  3. swmi

    I prayed that I would stumble upon an article like this ;-)

    May 17, 2013
    1. JumperK

      Pray directly to me and I will answer your prayers better than any god.

      May 20, 2013
      1. lostgirl846

        :P Science makes no sense, besides, everyone believes in a religion weather they know it or not. I just happen to know the truth

        August 27, 2013
        1. JumperK

          Yes, science makes no sense; antibiotics, polio vaccine, organ transplants, space travel, or water purification and literally thousands of other scientific discoveries all make no sense.
          Yet the thing that science really cannot make sense of is how you lostgirl can be such an idiot.

          August 29, 2013
          1. allara

            For heaven’s sake! I just arrived on these boards, hoping to find thoughtful adult discussion beyond the typical programmed humans slack jawed idiocy. None found. I find children who don’t even know the difference between a concept and a religion.

            March 02, 2016
            1. allara

              Is there a god according to modern physics? Yes, most likely. Can it be personified? Absolutely not given the nature of human “intelligence” and the simple fact that ‘personhood’ is so inferior to ‘being’. Humans are too hung up on this foolish notion that our species is intelligent. Hubris leads us to call it “intelligence”. It is pattern identification – the primate tool that has allowed us to survive as fit to a given environment that is in no way guaranteed to continue. Our species is stupid enough to destroy the very soup that spawned us. In the process, however, it does look as though we are very close to being face to face with what is ‘god’ to us. But, we stand on the brink of that ‘god’ being god of all but us.

              March 02, 2016
            2. JumperK

              I find it difficult to believe, highly unlikely, that most scientists studying the properties and nature of matter would say that there is a god. Where did you glean that bit of information?

              March 02, 2016
        2. JumperK

          And yes dimwit girl; I believe in religion, it exists. What I don’t believe in is the gods that religions proclaim.

          August 29, 2013
          1. lostgirl846

            WOW, your ruder than I thought:P And something tells me your more lost than me. And if u don’t believe in a god then what DO you worship? Plus…….HELLO?!! why would you write in SCIENCE VS RELIGION, if science makes no sense??

            August 29, 2013
            1. JumperK

              And you are dimmer than I thought possible. I worship nothing. Science does make sense.

              August 30, 2013
            2. rado

              JumperK: “And yes dimwit girl; I believe in religion, it exists.” The definition for religion: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods

              October 16, 2013
            3. JumperK

              rado – what is your point?

              October 16, 2013
          2. This comment has been deleted
      2. thriftyfreak

        Oh, Mighty and Holiest of K, the JumperK, please bestow upon me, wisdom, long life, mounds of cheeseburgers, larger breasts and a smaller physique, also more cheeseburgers, eternal youth, an understanding of the meaning of life, and vast, ridiculous wealth. In the name of JumperK we pray, amen.

        September 17, 2013
        1. JumperK

          Done! Or at least the bits I think you need.

          September 17, 2013
          1. thriftyfreak

            So, probably the breasts and physique at least, then. Right? Right?!

            September 18, 2013
            1. thriftyfreak

              (Looks down at herself) Damnit! This religion sucks. I’m switching to Coffee worship.

              September 18, 2013
            2. JumperK

              You keep this up I may have to smite you. Look I decided to give you quality over quantity, now go have a cheeseburger.

              September 18, 2013
            3. thriftyfreak

              I have noticed a certain lightening of spiritual weight, and much less pressure since I converted to Jumper-Kism. Jumper is truly a merciful Deity, and the sudden influx of cheeseburgers has not gone unnoticed.

              September 20, 2013
            4. JumperK

              Expect an up tick in your sex life.

              September 20, 2013
          2. thriftyfreak

            Oh, fine. I can still have coffee, though, right?

            September 19, 2013
            1. JumperK

              With me you get actual freewill, do as you like, just don’t be a dick to your fellow man/woman.

              September 19, 2013
            2. 0mgurd34d

              …Unless you are into some weird cosplay

              April 10, 2014
            3. jakedh

              The funny thing about freewill… Scientifically speaking, it is an illusion, and does not actually exist. Scientifically, everything, including every thought and decision, is simply the result cause and effect that originated in the Big Bang. (I would argue before the Big Bang, also, but I think you’ve already gotten the point.)
              So science…religion (according to your understanding)…either way, it’s all predetermined, and we’re just along for the ride.

              July 02, 2015
      3. aranstrom

        Nice try but there’s only one God, pray to him

        April 18, 2016
        1. JumperK

          Pray to a rock and you will get the same results ; some prayers will be answered the way you want and some the way the rock wants for you.

          April 19, 2016
          1. aranstrom

            That rock can’t do anything for you, God can, though.

            April 22, 2016
            1. JumperK

              The rock gives the same odds as any god.

              April 22, 2016
          2. aranstrom

            Sounds as if someone is just bitter towards God :P

            April 24, 2016
            1. JumperK

              Being bitter towards a nonexistent deity would be almost as crazy as believing a deity is more effective than science.

              April 24, 2016
          3. aranstrom

            Then tell me, what evidence do you have that God doesn’t exist?

            April 28, 2016
            1. JumperK

              The complete lack of evidence.

              April 29, 2016
  4. noah700

    If you read your bible and did your research, you’d find that true religion and science go hand in hand.

    May 21, 2013
    1. JumperK

      I have read the bible and your statement is nonsense. There are no scientific discoveries in the bible; the science that is mentioned is grossly in error. But if you care to debate something specific, feel free to present your argument.

      May 21, 2013
    2. rebel62

      Noah, are you stoned? or just illiterate?

      September 09, 2013
    3. 29A

      “true religion and science go hand in hand”
      .
      So in Genesis, when God prohibited Adam and Eve from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, how may that be interpreted other than a prohibition covering all forms of knowledge, and intrinsically anti-science?

      September 20, 2014
      1. This comment has been deleted
        1. JumperK

          There is no argument that some scientists have been religious. There can be no argument that the church/religion has hindered scientific progress.
          Science continues to advance, while religion remains unchanged, presenting no new knowledge, remaining exactly as it started, a hodge podge of myths and stories of no real benefit to mankind.
          Religion has adapted to accept some science explanations in a desperate attempt to stay relevant, but in no way does it complement science. It is in fact the antithesis of science, relying on blind faith instead of fact.

          July 10, 2015
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    4. JumperK

      How long is a day for god?

      September 20, 2014
      1. bwhite97

        to a being with no beginning and no end, a day could be a million years in our perspective

        July 20, 2015
    5. subtlecactus
      That statement could be true depending on how you define religion, however the way most people define religion it opposes science.

      January 03, 2015
      1. JumperK

        Your point is?

        January 06, 2015
  5. swmi

    Do they make a Jesus Magic 8-Ball?

    May 22, 2013
    1. JumperK

      Probably, the collection plates have been a tad light the last few years.

      May 22, 2013
    2. thriftyfreak

      “Dear Jesus, will I ever find love?” shakeshakeshake “Answer not found. Please pray again later.”

      September 18, 2013
  6. nebular555

    science is sort of witchcraft.

    May 24, 2013
    1. JumperK

      That is a nonsensical statement.

      May 24, 2013
  7. maxmorgan

    I think you are confusing the Bible with religious organization men who have make mistakes since the Bible was written. (I think that even here there were only a few instances.) The Bible is not to be taken literally in everything. But it does have a basic salvation message that those of you with an agenda ignore. Science can only observe natural phenomena. It cannot prove or disprove anything supernatural.

    From C.S. Lewis: Every scientific statement in the long run, however complicated it looks, really means something like, “I pointed the telelscope to such and such a part of the sky at 2:20 Am on January 15th and saw thus and so”, or , “I put some of this stuff in a pot and heated it to such and such a temperature and it did so and so.” Do not think I am saying anything against science: I am only saying what its job is. And the more scientific a man is , the more (I believe) he would agree with me that this is the job of science – and a very useful and necessary job it is too. But why anything comes to be there at all and whether there is anything behind the things science observes – somehing of a different kind – this is not a scientific question. If there is “Somehting Behind” then either it wll have to remain altogether unknown to men or else make itself known in some different way. The statement that there is any such thing and the statement that there is no such thing are neither of them statements that science can make. And real scientists do not usually make them. It is usually the journalists and popular novelists who have picked up a few odds and ends of half-baked science from textbooks who go in for them. After all, it is really a matter of common sense. Supposing science ever became complete so that it knew every single thing in the whole universe. Is it not plain that the questions, “Why is there a universe?”, “why does it go on as it does?” “Has it any meaning/” would remain just as they were?

    August 08, 2013
    1. JumperK

      “Supposing science ever became complete so that it knew every single thing in the whole universe.”; you mean like Christianity does?

      August 09, 2013
      1. maxmorgan

        I believe you missed the point. Religion and science operate in different spheres. For example, can science explain the meaning of life? You may disagree with Christianity’s answer to that question, but I don’t think you can claim that science is able to answer it. Question, can you tell me why are you against Christianity?

        August 10, 2013
        1. 0mgurd34d

          Because of the wars fought for religion, for it holding technology back, for the ignorant people who do not realize that they are posting “Science in nonsense” on their laptops. I wonder if they got those as divine gifts, because I could use a new laptop :/

          April 10, 2014
          1. faithinhim5914

            I actually won my IPad from a Christian radio station, simply because I donated $30 and was entered into a drawing. :-) God is GOOD!!!

            November 24, 2014
            1. JumperK

              You so special god grants you a toy, yet allows thousands of children to starve to death on the same day; what a monster.

              November 27, 2014
            2. JumperK

              Not to mention all he other donations your twisted god ignored.

              November 27, 2014
            3. crimsonglory

              and it’s preposterous to claim that Christians are anti-science. Christians believe that God created scientists – with the purpose to making progress in science. Christianity isn’t anti-science. That’s hogwash.

              February 03, 2016
        2. faithinhim5914

          God gives each and every one of us free will. If every person did things to help feed those starving children, it wouldn’t be an issue. I’ve had a rough life growing up, and at times, even I questioned if God was real. Situations I was put through as a child, I’d ask the same question that you are asking. Why does God allow that? For me, everything I went through has shaped me into the woman I am today, and brought me closer to God. God wants us to have a relationship with Him. If He made everything easy for everyone, we wouldn’t need Him for anything. And there would be no free will.

          December 01, 2014
          1. faithinhim5914

            I have to say too, even if there is no God, I’d rather live my life the way I am now…..believing, having faith, going to church and making wonderful friends, helping others when I can. There’s nothing bad in what I’m doing. But if there is a God and I live my life as though there’s not, then that is bad! I’d rather enjoy my life and have something to believe in! :-)

            December 01, 2014
            1. JumperK

              It would also be bad if you are worshipping the wrong god, and there are thousands of gods to choose from.

              December 01, 2014
          2. JumperK

            Sorry, but the free will argument is incredibly stupid. Would you agree that free will can only be had without coercion?

            December 01, 2014
      2. JumperK

        Crimsonglory – Christianity has a long history of slaughtering, torturing, and suppressing scientists and knowledge; it doesn’t come much more anti-science than that.

        February 03, 2016
  8. quovadis

    if you have read the bible it must not be taken in the context that it is matter of fact there are too many things that cannot be true by nature of science, however if you take away the people you will be left with the truth that someone wrote the bible parts of which can be found in earlier text. The foundation of this book (parts or Genesis) can be found in its probable writer Hermes trismegistus .who wrote the emerald tablet amongst many others in this u will find Matthew 7:7.It is interesting to find that there is a stained glass window showiing Hermes with the tablet in the Vatican. Even when it comes to jesus if you study you will find that his abilities were learned not given.and he passed this on to his disciples. There is also a chance that the quran came from an earlier text called Idris also by Hermes (maybe). Matthew 7:7, is the starting point for this study (which will never stop with me 7 yrs already). Interestingly M7:7 is also in the devils bible and in the emerald tablet. Science is something learned and religion is the way to employ that learning (so they both go hand in hand.
    Interestingly Hermes was obliterated from history (could an alchemist be attributed to the writings of the bible I THINK NOT). This secret was found by a priest in reyenne France who was killed because of this but hid this knowledge in the shape of a chess board (tiles on the floor) in a move called the knights tour which when done correctly spells out the knights prayer. But all in all science and religion can be lumped together under one heading (metaphysics) (the science of everything).
    Thanks for reading

    August 13, 2013
    1. JumperK

      An interesting but fringe opinion with scarce support.

      August 14, 2013
  9. smartgirl2252

    I give you applause for being bold enough to post something on this. Either you are a very intelligent man/women or a very idiotic fool.

    August 29, 2013
    1. JumperK

      Nothing bold about it, history is replete with examples of the church being wrong.

      August 29, 2013
  10. smartgirl2252

    I think neither is right not wrong. I guess you will find out the truth at the end.

    August 30, 2013
    1. JumperK

      The example I gave in this post clearly shows the church was wrong as was the bible. “WE” will not necessarily find out any truth in the end. If death is the end, we won’t know it.

      August 30, 2013
      1. smartgirl2252

        We don’t know anything. People created how we speak and l

        August 30, 2013
      2. rule64

        The problem with “Science vs Religion” is this……..Anyone who says “Science is right”, is a jackass. For the simple fact a real scientist will tell you knowing everything about anything is impossible. Anyone that says “Religion is 100% right” is a jackass. For the simple fact that it can’t be proven. Hey guess what? We have a link here! Science needs the physical proof to prove what they theorize. Which is commendable. I mean, it’s there. It’s obviously real. Religion doesn’t need the physical proof to believe in something. They have faith that it’s real. Both are very dangerous when not thought over. Any person who opens a science book and believe without question is ignorant. Any person that opens a bible and believes without question is ignorant.

        A growing problem is that people take sides. One is right, one is wrong, with no real reason why. You talk about the Bible and Qur’an. What about other religious text? Neither book is complete. No religious book can be. As the same, no science book can be either. Science is a religion. A religion is a belief in something. You believe in “Science”. Having faith is something every person needs. Not in a god, not something to worship. But something to believe in. It gives them a “Reason” one way or another. When you jump down the throats of your opponents, you look foolish. Prove to me that God isn’t real. Prove to me that science is right. You simply can’t.

        Like you said " “WE” will not necessarily find out any truth in the end. If death is the end, we won’t know" Can I ask you then, in this ever so short life how does it affect you if other people believe in a God? Certainly when someone says things, defend Science! Have the facts, Make them THINK! But this criticizing people over something that will never be proven or disproved, makes you look foolish.

        Another question to you is this; Where was it ever said that God didn’t want you to learn about this beautiful earth? To learn about the stars above, space, animals, how we work?

        Science isn’t right, yet.
        Religion isn’t right, yet.
        Until they are, why don’t we treat each other with respect and understanding that we can believe different things?

        September 09, 2013
        1. newmanshade

          Religion is a belief in the supernatural, not just a belief in ‘something’. A belief in something is just a belief. I believe in science because there is evidence to support it. I don’t require absolute proof to believe something; I believe my girlfriend loves me even though she could be performing an elaborate ruse. There is evidence to support that belief however – she does nice things for me, she tells me she loves me, she does naughty things in the dark, etc. I do not, however, believe an invisible magic man in the sky loves me because there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that possibility.

          October 29, 2013
        2. breakingawayentirely

          Well said

          January 14, 2015
  11. smartgirl2252

    Look* at things. As humans, we really know nothing. We just assume we do

    August 30, 2013
    1. JumperK

      For example?

      August 30, 2013
      1. smartgirl2252

        People are taught to speak and act and think a certain way. People invented words and numbers so that others could understand a certain context. But for all we know, this language is nothing and we know nothing. We just think we do and people agree as well.

        August 30, 2013
        1. JumperK

          That makes no sense at all. Not everyone thinks and acts a certain way. Disagrements are frequent.

          August 30, 2013
          1. smartgirl2252

            I appreciate your opinion

            August 31, 2013
            1. JumperK

              I hope you learned that not everybody speaks and acts a certain way.

              August 31, 2013
            2. mrmacq

              I do believe that was lost on her

              August 31, 2013
            3. JumperK

              mrmacq – She needs to change her moniker.

              August 31, 2013
          2. rule64

            What I think she means by this is…..

            We are trained to be a certain way. What to think, how to act, what to wear, what to watch, etc. We do indeed to it differently but the fact remains that someone is teaching us how to be. Parents, teachers, TV, news, books, magazines, etc. They teach us what is “Normal”. What is “Right” and “Wrong”. Disagreements are frequent, but each side was taught a certain way. This is obvious any time you step foot in a store and see a magazine rack that hundreds, and thousands of people read. When you turn on TV and see the Justin Biebers, Backstreet boys, Rat packs, Elvis, Micheal Jacksons, etc. This is a training for a certain way.

            You get up, go to work/school, you pay your bills, you sleep, you repeat. This is training. This is acting a certain way. Details may be different, but the overall plan is the same.

            September 09, 2013
  12. quovadis

    the bible is not wrong its just that everyone has forgotten how to read it.

    September 02, 2013
    1. JumperK

      Really and how are you supposed to read it? By turning off your brain and ignoring every inconsistency and error in the thing?

      September 02, 2013
      1. 0mgurd34d

        I am an atheist and I think that the people of the time lacked common sense and they made the Bible to teach them basic things. People wouldn’t listen so they had to promise them eternal life so they would be obedient. That way Bible can be read as I believe it was meant to be. P.S. Seriously though, I read it and it is so poorly written that it hurt me physically to read it.

        April 10, 2014
    2. JumperK

      Pardon, what is your point about the brain? You are using the bible to support the bible, brilliant.

      January 01, 2014
  13. quovadis

    Firstly ignore the inconsistencies and things that by science cannot be true as Noah in his 360 something year I think not. then realise that Jesus son of God or not was not given his gifts but they were something learned .Did he not say to the receivers of his miracles Tell no-one what I have done which they did and he was swamped by whole villages wishing to be cured of whatever because of this he said to his disciples go and do my work so were they not taught also. Firstly read Matthew 7:7 this is the law which governs every thing and all he asks is to be grateful, then read the necromat and you will find that the same is written, then read the emerald tablet of Hermes from 800 yrs before Jesus and you will find parts of Genesis and the words As above, so below,as within, so without, both Matthew and Hermes describing a belief system of how answers can be found. The emerald tablet has been quoted as being the most revered book of all time and a stained glass window depicting him is supposed to be in the Vatican itself. It is possible that Hermes wrote parts of the bible and the necromat and another book called Idris which could have formed the basis of the Quoran. And all from a Greek alchemist who believed in balance (the good book, the bad book, and the mid ground(Idris).Immortalised in a poem by Longfellow of the name Hermes Trismegistus.
    I look forward to many conversations with you and value you’re opinion. This is just me trying to find my answers and after 10yrs of study I have found what i think is the truth.(my truth) wanna know what it is?

    September 02, 2013
    1. 0mgurd34d

      Not in particular…

      April 10, 2014
  14. laurabeesting

    Let me interject my opinion, if I may. I consider myself a religious person. It is the root of who I am. Science to me is what miracle grow is to living plants. Religion is heart and feeds the soul. To have faith is to trust and love without expecting anything in return. Science is knowledge and feeds the brain. To advance humanity into the future we need and crave science. Big Bang Theory… than God said, “Let their be light.” What does it matter what and how I believe. Does faith make a better person, not necessarily, but science doesn’t guarantee that either. We need to try to be better people, nicer human beings… Love and continue to help each other unconditionally. Humility and respect for Life is the key.
    Catholic – born and raised. Yet I’m the first to admit that organized religion has so many flaws that I can’t fathom to try to document… it’s overwhelming and can cause brain damage. But science too, does not have a perfect record. The Atom Bomb. Nuclear weapons… yes, I hear you, the original concept for each was not to destroy… well neither was religion. Both are trying to teach us we are connected. It’s what we do with it that makes it worthy of belief. Naive. Sure, I will take that label. To believe with out question that a higher power exists! God, Allah, Buddha, Mother Nature, Karma, Spirit – call it what you will, that’s faith: belief in what you cannot physically see. We all have faith in a higher power. The real question is what will you do with it? Will you impose your way of life on others, will you force your ideas, will you sacrifice the life of others to get your message across, or will you open your mind to read between the lines, to love, to show compassion to the defenseless, to better your life and those around you?? WE are all connected. I pray, not for myself, but for others so that they can open their hearts and feel the connection to life/energy and know they are not alone or unworthy of love. The Bible is literature, written by Man. To teach and connect us spiritually. Just like science is fact so that we can move into the future, improve our lives. The hope/goal here is that we better ourselves and the lives of those around us. Let’s start by not labeling one better than the other. Let them work together to make us whole – Body and Spirit working together in harmony. Naive, sure, I will take that label. I will also take hopeful, respectful and decent.

    September 07, 2013
  15. prakriti910

    If you look close enough, science and religion are one and the same. It is us humans, and so called ‘followers’ of our respective religions (i mean no offence to anyone) whose minds, and individual perceptions of religion, are responsible for us looking at them as two different things that contradict each other.

    September 09, 2013
  16. maxmorgan

    JumperK – I see you are still at it. What are you really trying to accomplish? I contend: No God nor morality. Without an absolute standard no one not even you are science can measure progress. God bless.

    September 22, 2013
    1. JumperK

      Morality has been around longer than your god.

      September 23, 2013
      1. maxmorgan

        JumperK: If there is no God, there is just relativism and anyone’s morality is OK. And then it’s just comes down to might makes “right”. How does Nazi “morality” strike you? How about Soviet Union morality? How about Rwanda massacre morality? How about Hindu morality where widows were burned. How about slavery morality? How about euthenasia (sp?) morality? How about abortion morality? Etc. etc, etc.
        Please tell me your absolute standard for evaluating morality. God bless.

        September 25, 2013
        1. JumperK

          The Nazis swore their oath to the same god as you worship, your god was alright with that and let the slaughter carry on in his name.
          Christian morality? Forced conversions, crusades, how to keep and treat your slaves, inquisitions, the Dark Ages, the call by Catholic priests in Rwanda to conduct slaughter, thanks but you can keep your god based absolute morality.
          If there is such a thing as absolute morality it is evolutionary based.

          September 25, 2013
        2. newmanshade

          That is a most primitive and childish attempt at moral philosophy. There are scores of non-theist moral philosophers who have taken on your so-called challenge and developed highly advanced and very subtle philosophies that hold up under intense scrutiny. Read anything by Shelly Kagan, for example. Or Peter Singer. Just to mention a couple.

          October 29, 2013
  17. maxmorgan

    JumperK,you said “if there is such a thing as absolute morality, it is evolutionary based.” That seems to imply that you don’t believe in any absolute standard. But then you condemn “Christian” morality as practiced either in the past or recently. (I have said to you that “by their actions you will know who the real Christians are” but you continue to slander Christianity by the actions of those who are not Christians.) In any event, by what standard do you condemn those actions that you refer to? Your own standard? Also, if morality is evolving, how do we know morals are improving? How do we know what the goal is? Might you accept the golden rule as a standard? God bless

    September 26, 2013
    1. JumperK

      “…the real Christians are” As if you know what is in the minds of men or who will commit what you would call a sin. The Christian do gooder today could well be the murderer of tomorrow. But since you are all about good deeds and actions, perhaps your Christian charity would extend and allow the murderers, rapists,and assorted thugs who find god in prison to stay in your home when they release, just until they can finish some good deeds.
      Perhaps you are yourself sinless thus a “real Christian”. Well start your ministry.

      September 27, 2013
      1. maxmorgan

        JumperK – I didn’t say I knew the minds of men. I said by their actions you will know them.

        You didn’t answer my question as to what is your standard for judging.

        As to whether my actions live up to the ideal standards of Christianity is really not the issue. The issue as I see it is not whether I WOULD take some particular action but rather whether I SHOULD take that action. And what authority says I SHOULD take that action. I say God is the ultimate authority. And you say ?_ is the ultimate authority. God bless.

        September 28, 2013
        1. JumperK

          You used examples of morality (the Nazis and Rwanda) as bad examples of morality, which are clearly rooted in Christianity and then went on to deny them as such. Your own god is so blood soaked he is clearly no example for anybody but Nazis and evil doers to follow.
          I have little if any absolute morality, I would judge taking a human life to be wrong most of the time, but there are times it is justified. My sense of right and wrong has no doubt been shaped by family, society, and evolutionary checks that I have little control over.
          Fuck your god.

          September 28, 2013
          1. maxmorgan

            JumperK – “rooted in Christianity”? I don’t know what you think I denied. Nazi “morality” was terrible. You, however, want to say that because Nazi actions arose in a Christian nation that Christianity was at fault. It doesn’t seem logical to me to condemn Christianity because some so-called Christians (like Hitler) do NOT act as Christians. Free will exists and evil exists and power corrupts and temptations abound. As I have said (actually from the Bible) several times: “by their actions you will know them.” What is so hard to understand about that statement?

            I understand you to say you have no absolute morality but are against taking human life. I agree about the fact that family and society influence us. Those of family you do have little control over. You have more control over societal influence through your own free will decisions. Perhaps your concepts of right and wrong have been shaped by Judeo/Christian precepts more than you realize or that (possibly) you care to admit.
            God bless.

            September 28, 2013
            1. JumperK

              Again, fuck your god.

              September 28, 2013
            2. 0mgurd34d

              MaxMorgan – So according to your religion: Who created everything in the universe, the good and the bad? Yup, the same “God” that once talked to people in their visions but suddenly when people’s average IQ and common sense evolved those visions stopped/became extremely rare.

              April 10, 2014
            3. This comment has been deleted
        2. newmanshade

          Authority is not the foundation of morality. Ethical behavior is the foundation of morality. I don’t need a final authority because my morality is based on whether a person is hurt or harmed, not whether some god is offended. Religious morality is juvenile.

          October 29, 2013
  18. maxmorgan

    JumperK, you have said in the past that Rome was converted to Christianity by the sword. I said it was converted by the blood of the martyrs. Here is something written in the 2ns century that might be of interest written to the Roman Senate on the subject. It written by Justin who was converted by observing martyrs behavior. He also ended up as a martyr. (A link to the full document is also given.) God bless.

    http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-secondapology.html
    JUSTIN MARTYR (100-167 AD)
    THE SECOND APOLOGY OF JUSTIN FOR THE CHRISTIANS
    ADDRESSED TO THE ROMAN SENATE

    Excerpt from CHAPTER XIICHRISTIANS PROVED INNOCENT BY THEIR CONTENIPT OF DEATH.

    For I myself, too, when I was delighting in the doctrines of Plato, and heard the Christians slandered, and saw them fearless of death, and of all other things which are counted fearful, perceived that it was impossible that they could be living in wickedness and pleasure. For what sensual or intemperate man, or who that counts it good to feast on human flesh,4 could welcome death that he might be deprived of his enjoyments, and would not rather continue always the present life, and attempt to escape the observation of the rulers; and much less would he denounce himself (i.e. confess he was a Christian) when the consequence would be death? … For having put some to death on account of the accusations falsely brought against us, they also dragged to the torture our domestics, either children or weak women, and by dreadful torments forced them to admit those actions which they themselves openly perpetrate; about which we are the less concerned, because none of these actions are really ours, …But we are not concerned, since we know that God is a just observer of all. But would that even now someone would mount a lofty rostrum, and shout with a loud voice, “Be ashamed, be ashamed, ye who charge the guiltless with those deeds which you yourselves openly commit, and ascribe things which apply to yourselves and to your gods to those who have not even the slightest sympathy with them. Be ye converted; become wise.”

    September 26, 2013
  19. maxmorgan

    JumperK – I’ll let you have the last word. I do believe that you are a much better person than you let on to be with the language you use. God bless.
    Max

    September 28, 2013
    1. JumperK

      Fuck your god.

      September 28, 2013
      1. javemarabe

        oh God bless you!

        February 26, 2014
        1. JumperK

          Oh fuck your god!

          February 26, 2014
  20. eve_your_mother

    There is so much left out of the bible, the bits where I had to inbreed with my offspring for 1,000 generations so that there would be enough to populate the planet, how Cain and Able where functional hermaphrodites! How much Adam used to complain that me missed his rib! I mean really he did have to give birth to 100,000 inbreeds I don’t know what the fuck he was complaining about, his sons did all the work, reaping and burning wheat and all. Not to mention that prick Noah who let them drown and I had to start gain! Oi vai! All the best, Your mother Eve xxx

    October 03, 2013
    1. JumperK

      You make it even more twisted and unbelievable than it was the first time around.

      October 03, 2013
      1. eve_your_mother

        Thank you I do try

        October 05, 2013
  21. trickiegypsiepixie

    why not see them as two different story tellers telling the same stroy?

    October 08, 2013
    1. JumperK

      Because they don’t tell the same story. One is superstitious nonsense that has frequently held back the advancement of humanity and has no basis in reality.

      October 08, 2013
      1. trickiegypsiepixie

        there are some things that do coincide. you can find them if you know where to look

        October 08, 2013
        1. JumperK

          Oh just for shits and giggles; give an example.

          October 08, 2013
          1. trickiegypsiepixie

            try something other than Christianity. perhaps Egyptian mythology or Greek mythology. both are part of religion. try more specifically; their stories of creation.

            October 09, 2013
            1. JumperK

              There are numerous creation stories from various religions; so what? You said some things coincide – you have yet to produce an example. Shit or get off the pot already.

              October 09, 2013
  22. bucky

    The gods were destroyed by the discovery of the Highs Boson particle. Check mate.

    October 10, 2013
    1. JumperK

      Each god is destroyed by what ever next god gains popularity. The Higgs boson particle means nothing to superstitious fools who put trust in a god discovered only 2500 years ago. Science continualy disproves the supernatural and yet those who believe in the supernatural continue to move the goal posts.

      October 10, 2013
  23. trickiegypsiepixie

    JumperK there is no need for you to be an ass.

    October 10, 2013
    1. JumperK

      trickie – Give your example and carry on with the conversation or fuck off.

      October 12, 2013
      1. trickiegypsiepixie

        if you want some fucking then fuck yourself.

        October 14, 2013
        1. JumperK

          Right so I will assume that you will now fuck off as you can add nothing of substance.

          October 15, 2013
          1. trickiegypsiepixie

            no i will not fuck off.

            October 17, 2013
            1. JumperK

              Then contribute something of value.

              October 17, 2013
      2. trickiegypsiepixie

        if you want some fucking then fuck yourself.

        October 14, 2013
      3. trickiegypsiepixie

        if you want some fucking then fuck yourself.

        October 14, 2013
        1. mrmacq

          i hear a child rambling

          July 20, 2015
  24. amandakristine

    I have a great example for you. Go read the famous debate between athiesm and christianity from 2002. the athiest Scholar and scientist loses by a landslide because he demand that christians prove there is a god, however he could not disprove God. He could explain how a body works but could not explain WHY. In a nutshell to believe there is no God is to believe there is no meaning to life. So your belief is simply meaninglessness. If you believe in meaninglessness, then your opinion nor your proof matters, because everything is meaningless. God is love and since there is no god, you cannot love. You dont love your mother and father, your dog nor your child, it is simply an illusion projected by chemicals in your body for no real reason. You have no purpose and are meaningless. If you believe that everything does not have purpose than you cannot have this argument because you cannot have purpose. Amen

    October 12, 2013
    1. JumperK

      How is this an example of the parallels of science and religion?

      October 12, 2013
      1. amandakristine

        You have to actually read the debate and it’s all there.

        October 12, 2013
        1. JumperK

          I read your blurb a couple of times and still I do not see how your writing in anyway explains how there is a parallel between science and religion. Can you be clearer? I see you writing about purpose, but not about how science and religion are similar, equal, or parallel.

          October 12, 2013
          1. amandakristine

            my blurb? the article i suggested that you read was a professionally recorded word for word debate on exactly what you are ranting about. The pastor in this famous quarrel evplaijns everything you wuld need to know to continue your futile debacle. You believe that science can prove everything except for god, so there for there is no god. However there has been no since scientific recording that explains the meaning of life itself, nor the meaning of love, sacrifice, sorrow, and morals. To argue that there is no divine meaning to anything is also to argue against yourself; you are mearly using your own theories to prove that your life and therefore your opinion has absolutely no meaning whatsoever.

            October 13, 2013
            1. JumperK

              You might actually try attaching a link to what you reference as there are numerous “famous” debates.
              I said nothing about what I believe science will or will not prove; nor have I presented any theories.
              Science has explained the reasons and the origins of morals, it has also made good headway into explaining the process and reasons for the emotions you mentioned and are continuing with those investigations.
              My life and actions within that life time have both meaning and purpose; they just don’t have any connection to a god that there is no evidence of.
              Again, how does your banter about philosophical issues relate to the parallels of science and religion previously mentioned?
              What is this divine meaning you speak of?

              October 13, 2013
            2. mrmacq

              “nor the meaning of love, sacrifice, sorrow, and morals.”
              my dogs have love
              my dogs have sacrifice (a learned thing brought about by the environment that they live in)
              my dogs have sorrow
              my dogs have morals (another learned thing)
              theres no need to attribute these things to any sky daddy

              July 10, 2015
  25. amandakristine

    There is is plenty of evidence, those who are blinded by the need to have a explanation for everything fail to see it sitting in front of them. Your life and actions have meaning and purpose? How is this I suppose? I didn’t see your name, your actions, or this so called purpose in the bible or any scientific explanation that you indeed have more of a purpose than to just be a complicated piece of matter that seems to think it matters, yet to whom do you matter? Why are you here? What is your purpose? You really think that after thousands of years of people not just believing but experiencing god, that when a few naysayers come along that its going to change what those who have felt it , seen it, lived it , in something completely different? To believe such a thing is ignorance and cocky. You are a naysayer, there’s no about that, so I can tell you right now what your sole purpose from my disposition is… You are here to test others faith. You make those who are so sure to wonder and have doubt, but it is doubt that makes us stronger in the long run. The more doubt there is the stronger the faith grows. I’m not trying to convince you if anything, god has told me that those who don’t know god can only come to know him when introduced. There is nothing anyone can say to convince you the existance of anything, you will find the proof when you hit your rock bottom all on your own and see it for yourself. That’s how it happens for everyone. I was atheist for my whole life, when I experienced nothing shirt of a miracle something that could absolutely not be explained by reason or science, then I opened my eyes and began to see the evidence everywhere. It’s funny bc people just don’t get it. You nonbelievers ask for proof, you want god to plop on your lap and say here I am, when it is only to those who already believe and accept him that he reveals himself. And I must say you are all living sad meaningless lives, and when you die you will go nowhere and have accomplished nothing bc that is what you believe.

    October 14, 2013
    1. JumperK

      Did you find Jesus hiding behind the curtains? He never learns, that is where most people find him, the holes in his feet are a dead giveaway.
      Seriously, what purpose do you think you have that nonbelievers don’t?
      Obviously you do not understand the definition of proof.
      I’d be curious about this so called miracle you experienced.

      October 15, 2013
      1. amandakristine

        Unfortunately I am just human so I can’t decide what your real purpose is or what will happen to you, I was more or less saying that if it were up to me you’d get exactly what you believe and that is meaninglessness, however Jesus lives all even doubters so good luck to you and your constant wondering, blabbering blasphemy and misery. By the way my miracle, I will share even though I shouldn’t through my pearls to pigs by sharing something so precious to me with someone who can’t appreciate it. I did not believe in god, I liked to party and drink and didn’t think it was fair for someone to try and put some many “restristions” on my life. I was raped and nearly beaten to death, I was also visiting an er almost every week bc I was experiencing dibilatating pain all over my body, my blood pressure was gradually rising until I ultimately ended up in the icu and in a medically induced coma for 2 months. The miracle is- when I arrived at the hospital I just had a cold, within the hour it had become full blown pneumonia and my body would not fight it off. I went from having a cold to going into cardiac arrest with severe pneumonia in one night. When I woke up, I heard my mom praying over me. I couldn’t speak. At that moment I begged god to forgive me for my lifestyle. 2 hours later the fluid in my lungs and heart was completely gone, my heart went from 2% function to 60%. The doctors couldn’t explain any of what happened to me. There’s more to it but I don’t want to write a book. Look I’m not saying you should change your mind about anything, you have free will so you have the right to be curious and seek in your own way but I am saying that you shouldn’t blow out a candle before you light another or you’ll be left in the dark. Keep an open mind.

        October 16, 2013
        1. JumperK

          Wow, modern medicine saved your life – it’s a miracle! That god is such a great guy for letting the rapist violate you and have you beaten; must have been your freewill to get raped, praise Jebus!

          October 16, 2013
    2. mrmacq

      holy crap
      " you will find the proof when you hit your rock bottom "
      odd your gawd only shows up then
      " That’s how it happens for everyone."
      and you know this how?
      " I was atheist for my whole life,"
      once an atheist always an atheist
      " when I experienced nothing shirt of a miracle something that could absolutely not be explained by reason or science,"
      yet you dont give any particulars so i call BS
      " then I opened my eyes and began to see the evidence everywhere."
      ya mean you wanted to believe anything to prove to yourself that you werent at rock bottom still
      " It’s funny bc people just don’t get it."
      might be the reason why we cant believe you
      " You nonbelievers ask for proof, you want god to plop on your lap and say here I am, when it is only to those who already believe and accept him that he reveals himself."
      hold it
      you just stated you were an atheist so therefore unable to see
      so obviously you didnt àlready believe
      ``And I must say you are all living sad meaningless lives, `
      what a fucking ignorant thing to say
      theres nothong sad nor meaningless about an atheists life just cause he`s an atheist
      ``and when you die you will go nowhere`
      and neither will you except for either into a hole in the ground to feed the worms OR burnt to a crispy critter
      do you not think it odd that the hebrews gawd (the one you christians stole) never told the hebrews about hell…still hasnt
      and they were the chosen ones
      `` and have accomplished nothing``
      fuck you, you holier than thou, sanctimonious dip shit

      July 10, 2015
  26. blessedassurance

    “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.”

    October 23, 2013
    1. JumperK

      They don’t know because your god is either to stupid to let them know what to do or doesn’t fucking exist – your god is a shitty communicator.

      October 24, 2013
      1. blessedassurance

        The devil is a liar.

        October 24, 2013
        1. JumperK

          Do you want to make a debatable point or do just want to throw out mindless Christian one liners?

          October 24, 2013
        2. mrmacq

          there is no devil
          IN SHORT… For Jews, anything that even remotely conflicts with the idea that Gd is One and Indivisible will be rejected out of hand because it precludes true pure monotheism. The idea that there is a Gd in heaven above who fights against a god of the underworld, or of hell, is not monotheism. It is, however, the same duality found in other pagan faiths. The Bible speaks of a character known as The Satan, who acts like a prosecuting attorney, or a district attorney, in Gd’s court. However, The Satan has no power or authority in and of himself, rather he must get permission from the Judge, Gd, to do anything. `
          .
          lets us not forget you hey zeus followers stole the hebrew gawd then changed all the rules to suit

          July 10, 2015
  27. khethil

    Aside from the ridiculous statements church entities have sometimes made over the years, I’ve never bought into any ‘vs’.
    ~
    Science is a methodology, Religion is an affair of the heart. One seeks the poetry of our world, bodies and state – The other gives comfort to those who believe in something past this existence we collectively enjoy. This whole ‘versus’ is a false dichotomy, one needn’t be pit against the other.
    ~
    When we do so, we advesarialize people through the loyalties they’ve professed. Don’t do it, we don’t need any more angst. Feel superior if you like, but some simple respect for the different goals of Science and Religion can go a long way to making the world of human beings a much better place.
    ~
    P.S: I’m an atheist, been that way a long time. But my evangelizing days are over and I strive to not be a source of despair or conflict. Time’s too short and friends too few to burn bridges that aren’t in each other’s way

    October 24, 2013
    1. JumperK

      The inadvertent goal of religion is the dumbing down of the population by claiming to have all the answers.

      October 24, 2013
  28. darkestdemon

    As an atheist, I see no harm in the peaceful religions (Taoism, Buddhism, etc) and really only have issues with the “big three,” which seem to have so many people of the world gripped by the balls, so to speak; scared to think outside of their Godrealm in fear their God may smite them. Religions based upon repentance and saviors are merely focused on, as you said, dumbing down the population, as well as placing a firm hold on those who believe their deities are fragile enough to be shattered by hardcore facts.

    October 31, 2013
  29. garrettmitchell

    Great post. I believe that there is a healthy relationship between science and religion. As a christian, it hurts me to see uninformed advocates of the faith that deny factual things. It is being largely misrepresented. Whatever science proves, is fact so embrace it. I embrace science that is proven.

    November 08, 2013
  30. greenriver

    and science losses every time.

    November 15, 2013
    1. JumperK

      What a stupid statement; “and science losses every time.”
      It was not religion that has produced antibiotics, stopped women dying by the thousands in childbirth, produced artificial limbs, eliminated small pox, produced safe food, or discovered how to prevent hundreds of diseases from killing you, and so much more.
      And religion has produced what other than ignorance?

      November 16, 2013
      1. greenriver

        OH my friend But we where not talking about all though gifts God gave to man to help himself we where talking about science vs religion

        November 16, 2013
    2. JumperK

      We were indeed, and religion has given nothing to man except ignorance. Science on the other hand has advanced man far further than any imaginary friend or religious dogma.
      You made the statement that science loses every time yet provided no examples, indicating that you have nothing but blanket statements fueled by the type of ignorance religion advances.

      November 16, 2013
      1. greenriver

        you are right my friend science vs religion I will score it 50\50 But God vs science is something like God EVERY THING And science nothing!!!!! Because with out God there would be no science why 1 God created this earth so we could have a place to live. 2 He created one man and one women to set human live into motion.3 HE set life it self into motion by giving us air to breath, life into the soil to grow food. 4 Gave man rule over all the earth and to be able to have food from other life.5 He put plants and ever thing man would need to find med. and use for their health. And you my friend say I have no example this thing call the inter net could not hold all the EXAMPLES I have…and i do not have the time lol I have better thing to do than retrace what we all ready know at lest some of us..

        November 16, 2013
        1. JumperK

          So many gods, so much ignorance. Again you have nothing, even your biblical creation story is fucked up in the order nature would require it to happen.

          November 16, 2013
          1. greenriver

            I guess you a big bang person!!!!NOW that is messed up big time I am done

            November 16, 2013
            1. JumperK

              You were done when you could not support your statement.

              November 16, 2013
            2. JumperK

              Your firm foundation was built on the myths of previous religions tied together with the threads of paganism. You have nothing but smoke in your hands and indoctrination in your mind.

              November 17, 2013
          2. greenriver

            I have firm foundation and load of support and that is good enough for me

            November 17, 2013
          3. greenriver

            And all you have my friend is some nut and his carbon dating and a off the wall big bang bang you have to strong faith to believe that foolishness .

            November 17, 2013
            1. JumperK

              Oh yes, and of course actual evidence. Then again you have evidence also, evidence that shows your god evolved from others and did not appear before 2500 years ago.

              November 17, 2013
          4. greenriver

            God has always been and will always be. and yes there is plenty of evidence

            November 17, 2013
            1. JumperK

              Just none for your god. You don’t understand the word “done” do you?

              November 17, 2013
          5. greenriver

            you got it done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            November 17, 2013
            1. JumperK

              Now if only you understood the word “evidence”.

              November 17, 2013
          6. greenriver

            now you must not understand the word done? or truth

            November 17, 2013
            1. JumperK

              I never said that I was done; you did. Truth? Religion is built on lies and the bodies of superstitious fools who need to be controled.

              November 17, 2013
  31. moriahjoy

    I understand your point, the moon (per the given example) is an insanely huge accomplishment for people. And the Bible is supposed to kind of cover every important thing. But if you think about it, by this logic, the Bible would need to mention a TON of things.
    For a comical example, in biblical times, the men wore robes. If a man wore anything remotely similar to a dress today, he would be ostracized and shamefully immortalized in history. The world of men’s clothing has immensely changed in the last few thousand years. But the Bible does not say anything anywhere about there one day being pants. This is a big deal, is it not? Up until last century, the distinction between the clothing of men and women signified the power and influence that one held over the other. Needless to say, pants are a huge deal!
    My friend, the Bible is a huge enough book already. I believe that God was doing all of its readers a favor when He kept it as concise as He did.
    God’s Word contains everything that it needs: man’s fall, the promise of a Savior, people trying to fix themselves (while God remained faithful), the Savior’s life, death, and resurrection, how to be saved, how to live out the saved life, and Judgment Day. I know that, by our standards, it may seem to be lacking, but on God’s terms, He has told us all we need to know to love the fullest life for Him, which, in the end, is all that matters.

    December 23, 2013
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  33. aspyapneac

    I pray to the almighty JumperK that humans will begin to apply science to our economy so we can curb the wasteful squander of our resources simply to perpetuate a dysfunctional system that only religious mentality could possibly support. I pray to the almighty JumperK that people will evolve past religion, currency, politics and all other contrived social structures which support and reinforce a status quo of inequality and violence.

    January 09, 2014
    1. JumperK

      Me thinks the almighty will be a dismal failure on that prayer as well.

      January 10, 2014
  34. maxmorgan

    To all, you know Jumper is losing the debate when he resorts to the F word. God bless you jumper, you are a better person than you allow yourself to show to others.

    January 28, 2014
    1. JumperK

      Nice to hear from you again. Not only fuck your god, but you as well.

      January 28, 2014
      1. maxmorgan

        God bless you Jumper

        January 29, 2014
        1. JumperK

          Fuck you too.

          January 29, 2014
          1. maxmorgan

            As I said, when the f word comes out, logic departs. God bless you jumper. Some day you will turn to God.

            January 30, 2014
            1. JumperK

              unfucking likely fuck you very much.

              January 30, 2014
  35. kahungyu

    Christians claim bible have things in it that are advanced and can’t be written by primitive people, so they say God inspired it. They just use God to explain things they don’t understand. To me, it seems easier to believe Hebrews knew about sanitation and healthy way to circumcise and all the “scientific” stuff in bible, then to believe that God wrote the bible. What I don’t understand is Christians claim of fulfilled prophecies as evidence for God, when it’s easier to believe people telling the future by a time machine or some unknown skill. I believe there is possibilty God can exist, but He didn’t write the bible, and He works within the realm of science, none of the hocus pocus of creating Adam from dirt. If Jesus rose from the dead, then a guy rose from the dead, why does that make Him God. I always wonder how we know God if He needs to reveal Himself, and when He does, how do we know it’s Him and not the Devil pretending to be Him. Even if the bible is God’s Word, we can’t assume its inerrancy. God can be a very good Liar. The best lies are the ones people believe are true.

    January 29, 2014
    1. JumperK

      Interesting points.

      January 29, 2014
  36. wishpeoplewere

    I think we can assume that God is not a lier. Nothing in the Bible didn’t happen. It is with out error. The character of the God of the Bible is not a lier. I think you are wrong in saying that God is a lier. But, I enjoyed reading your thoughts! Interesting ideas.

    February 11, 2014
    1. JumperK

      Your statement that the bible is without error is laughable and provably wrong. Santa doesn’t lie either.

      February 11, 2014
  37. javemarabe

    Just as Einstein said, why won’t you believe in things that you don’t see yet you believe that you have a brain (that time there was no MRI’s yet). I can tell you that I’m not a religious person, but a faithful one.
    John Jave Marabe
    Contributor, http://ourhappyschool.com/

    February 26, 2014
    1. mrmacq

      cause in all of history no one had cleaved open a skull yet

      September 23, 2014
      1. JumperK

        I chuckle every time some religious nut job brings up that brain shit.

        September 23, 2014
  38. This comment has been deleted
  39. brianalipatalcantara

    We all know that Science and Religion is always contradict. Every miracle or happenings, science have the answer. Brian Alcantara
    Contributor, http://ourhappyschool.com/

    February 26, 2014
  40. noieo

    science and religion are only a debate because of mans small minds…. it all could fit together. BIG BANG, mmmm maybe God lit the match… amazingly simple.

    June 20, 2014
    1. JumperK

      What is so simple is that god’s creation by man, can be traced back 3000 years where he suddenly “poof” popped into existence. Where was he before that?

      June 21, 2014
      1. noieo

        Anywhere he wanted to be. Please understand who I am. I am not here to argue or debate. Nor am I here to prove anything or disprove anything. My “thoughts” are the thoughts I live with. These thoughts are only as important to you as you want them or allow them to be. I am simply sharing. I do not really care what anyone else thinks, feels or believes. No one should care what I think, feel or believe. I am not against debating or arguing, just isn’t my thing. I will read, type my input but I am not here to disturb anyone’s peace.

        June 24, 2014
        1. JumperK

          Anywhere he wanted to be? That apparently was nowhere, most certainly not anywhere in the minds of men or anywhere man occupied. In fact he did not exist until created by man.

          June 26, 2014
  41. ramatam

    Both Science and Religion are creations of Man. Therefore both are flawed.

    June 30, 2014
    1. JumperK

      Science admits it’s errors, the religious wallow in their ignorance.

      June 30, 2014
      1. ramatam

        I agree, religion is man made, therefore flawed. Religion has done more damage to people than you can imagine. And Science use to follow the truth where ever it ended up. But now Science is used to create a truth held by the one doing the Science. Also Science is limited in it’s outcome because it only deals with matter. There are intangibles in play and things unseen that makes up a large part of this realm. Example: When you go sleep at night, you wake up refreshed and have the energy to tackle the new day. Tonight, instead of sleeping, just lay in bed all night and rest your body. In the morning you will be dragging your butt. What an amazing repeatable experiment. Why must we become unconscious and reach REM sleep to become refreshed? What are the mechanics of this. What happens? Were in bed resting, but we must undergo a mysterious rejuvenation to continue. And waking up sometimes feels like your crawling back into our designated heavy meat sack after a night of defying time, space and gravity and becoming something else for a spell. Just a thought.

        July 01, 2014
  42. radical4christ

    Everyone must seek out their own salvation with fear and trembling. God will not reveal himself to one whose heart is hardened toward Him. That is why His own did not accept or recognize Him. God mentions that truth only comes to those who believe. So if you’ve read the Bible but did not believe then you will not receive understanding or revelation of any sort. You are what the Bible says, “blind.” There will be a judgment day whether you agree or disagree. God is a Spirit. He is supernatural. He is science. The body you possess was created by Him. I have lived my life with the Lord a long time, have debated many atheists. It all came down to something in the individuals life that made them doubt the power and existence of God. Well, God also speaks of this…we live in a fallen world, our life is not our own. Again, God only reveals himself to those who choose to love Him. You can read the Bible over and over, and pick out the flaws, the inconsistencies and so forth. You can keep telling yourself that there is no god and persuade others in your ways. You can create your own purpose and possibly be successful on this earth. But one thing I’m sure of that you can’t possibly understand is that this world will soon pass away and believers will be caught up in the air with the Savior while others will receive eternal fire. So this is really not a matter of science at all. And God is not a religion. God is beyond all of our understanding but yet He is so loving to allow us the privilege of Salvation, the Holy Spirit, and eternal life with Him.

    July 08, 2014
    1. JumperK

      “God will not reveal himself to one whose heart is hardened toward Him.” Then he is a shitty communicator and piss poor savior. Since all things are supposedly created by god, who knows exactly how everyone will act and live and die, but yet creates these beings anyway to burn in some mystical fire forever, makes your god a monster of epic proportions.
      Give me one shred of evidence for his existence and I will follow you to church.

      July 09, 2014
      1. radical4christ

        That’s the thing that is difficult for one to accept about God. This life is by faith. God is actually very compassionate. He will never force anyone to serve Him. He has made it our decision. I serve Him because He first loved me. He showed me a way of life that is very beautiful and peaceful. A life without God is unimaginable. It seems that everyone who doesn’t serve God is caught up in themselves or bitter in some sort of way. I also see a lot of evilness in this world because of the many poor choices that people make. God wouldn’t be God if we were perfect. We need a savior and He is our Savior. In the Bible it says “that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.” This will happen on Judgment day. I think it best that before you actually close your heart to God that you at least spend some time looking at your life. If you feel miserable or unsatisfied, angry, or haughty then you might take a look on allowing God to bring down some of those walls. He is here not to punish but to offer freedom, true freedom. A lot of people don’t realize that they are bound by their own devices. God does not put people into hell, people put themselves in hell by choosing to live a life that was not intended by God. Living for God is wonderful. Many unbelievers think that living for God is boring or “there’s too many rules.” It is not until you actually open your heart to God and live for Him daily that you will understand that it is a desire, a longing to please the Lord because of His great sacrifice that He paid on the cross, and the unconditional love and mercies He shows us everyday despite our failures. I have met people just like you who don’t get why God would allow evil to exist. If I can say anything to help you understand why I love God so much it’s because He is fighting the devil for me everyday. I cannot live in this world and say it all came from nothing. There has to be a wonderful creator. Also, I look at my life and see all that I’ve overcome…there has to be someone giving me strength. I look at my body and my mind and see that there has to be a great scientist who created such a complex and beautiful human being.
        I’ve looked at your posts and I just feel sad. You just seem very angry. I wonder how much things you’ve endured in life without the Lord. I’m not saying being a Christian means that we are exempt from hard times. It’s just when the hard times have come in my life, God was right there to comfort me and guide me. Again, this life is by faith. If you want evidence than look elsewhere. God wants YOU. He is not a god that will is going to perform magic powers to open your eyes. If you take the first step then He will take you the rest of the way. So many people are quick to point out the negatives about Christianity and people who serve God. Well, if you look at your life and you look at my life, you will see that we are both human beings. We make mistakes. Christians make very poor mistakes as well. That is why we need Jesus. He is the mastermind in this lost and dying world. He will help us to finish the race so that we are with him in Heaven. So, if you met some pretty awful Christian people, don’t base your decision to serve God because of these people’s attitudes or choices. In the Bible it says that we all fall short, all of us are sinner that need God. You need to seek God for yourself and Only for yourself. And you will see that God will never fail you, never hurt you, and give you what your heart truly desires. I know that I probably won’t convince you otherwise but I know that I’m convinced about Jesus. He is very real. I’ve been serving Him since I was 11 years old. I came from a family that didn’t go to church. I cried to my mom almost every Sunday to take me to church. Church and being with the people of God was my safe place. It was a lot better than being at home where all the chaos abounded. The more I served God the more I saw God working in my family. It wasn’t until I finished high school that I saw a huge transformation in my family. My sister gave her life to God. My dad of all people gave his life to God. Maybe someday I can tell you there stories because they have been through a lot and have come out as champions. I see too many people in this world survive the worst. Who am I to doubt God? God knows how the devil works. The devil is here to steal, kill, and destroy. The devil is also persuasive. The devil doesn’t use weapons and he doesn’t literally kill people. The devil destroys people through their minds, their thoughts, and emotions. The devil knows your every weakness. The devil knows that you are a skeptic, so he will do everything possible to convince you that there is not a god. You think that you may have it all in control but believe me, the devil is just stringing you along like a puppet and laughing because he thinks he has your soul. Well, I think it’s time that you actually embrace the true meaning of life.
        My prayer is that this message not cause you to become defensive. If you knew me you would see that I say these things in love. I want all people to see that God is truly awesome and only wants the best for us. God has given me what no one else can give unconditionally. God Bless you.

        July 09, 2014
        1. JumperK

          What a load of mindless drivel. The post is about reality and fact, actual evidence and the superiority of science over religion, keep your superstitious nonsense to yourself.

          July 10, 2014
          1. radical4christ

            I won’t. But I’m glad you took the time to read my post. God Bless you.

            July 10, 2014
            1. JumperK

              May Odin give you a chair at the table in Valhalla.

              July 10, 2014
  43. inferal

    in reverse, the universe is contracting to a point of infinately small and dense space. Everything happens for a reason; everything we do happens for a reason. All matter is conscious in itself to create life.

    July 18, 2014
    1. JumperK

      The universe is expanding as the theory predicts, there is no evidence that anything happens for a reason.

      July 19, 2014
      1. inferal

        the most basic laws of physics, backwards the universe is contracting to an unfathomable point, for science believes the laws of physics were formed in the first millisecond due to the explosion

        July 19, 2014
      2. inferal

        the universe is definitely expanding, if you believe in red blue shift, which you can prove by looking into the horizon of mountains

        July 19, 2014
        1. JumperK

          In one post you claim the universe is contracting and then you claim it is expanding. WTF? You also state, without support, that everything happens for a reason. And that reason is?

          July 20, 2014
          1. inferal

            in reverse the universe is contracting. Does nothing happen for a reason?

            July 20, 2014
            1. JumperK

              Are you going to eventually make a point?

              July 21, 2014
          2. inferal

            inferal.thoughts.com

            July 23, 2014
            1. JumperK

              Still waiting for you to make a point.

              July 23, 2014
          3. inferal

            the purpose is to evolve, to become more freen

            July 23, 2014
            1. JumperK

              I have no idea what “freen” is or what your statement about evolving is supposed to mean in relation to the topic.

              July 23, 2014
      3. inferal

        people seem to have a problem believing what most others say it seems

        July 19, 2014
      4. inferal

        EVERYTHING happens for a reason, it’s the most fundemental law of physics

        August 19, 2014
        1. JumperK

          Sad that you have never actually studied physics.

          August 19, 2014
        2. inferal

          everything is similar to all it is similar to, everything is because

          May 08, 2015
  44. jennifertuesdayprichard

    I don’t believe the two have to conflict….well, the problem with religion is that it is man-made whereas science is man-discovered- allowing evidence to lead you to conclusions. So, more accurately it would be faith and science going hand-in-hand. Man can discover a faith …but that faith is ultimately different for everyone, much like the science inside our bodies.

    July 30, 2014
    1. JumperK

      Religion is manmade, like the gods it represents. It is ludicrous to suggest faith and science go hand and hand. Faith is based on nothing rational, it is ignorance embraced. Science is the antithesis of faith, it is knowledge and fact based.
      -
      Faith is not different for everyone, it is hope based on nothing concrete. It is again nothing like the science inside our bodies; WHICH is basically the same for everyone.

      August 01, 2014
  45. arrolyn

    It’s so sad that some people in religion are narrow-minded. As a Catholic, I am ashamed to hear that a priest said such things ( I mean the quote that you put on the post). But actually science and religion don’t have to be opposite things, today some people find ways that both (religion and science) can be integrated and lead us to the truth. Both in Buddhism and Christianity.

    August 04, 2014
  46. bobbyj
    To anyone on this thread: Is your morality based upon a universal moral code against which to judge matters of right and wrong or is morality a product of experience, where every man does that which seems right in his own eyes ? Explain your answer.

    September 19, 2014
    1. JumperK

      Morality has an evolutionary root, what works for the tribe’s survival has been passed on. Altruistic behavior is not limited to humans.

      September 20, 2014
    2. mrmacq

      the Hebrew gawd supposedly was of the mind that if someone were to take your hand you had the right to take theirs
      he also supposedly stated the same with the idea “an eye for an eye”
      he supposedly stated to the Hebrews to lop off the hand that steals a loaf of bread or to stone individuals for all sorts of reasons
      our western society does not do these things anymore due to our societies changing morals
      so was that gawd you stole wrong before?
      or is it he’s fallible?
      that it was a oops moment for him
      .
      theres a much simpler explanation
      he…along with all those other man made inventions (gods)
      simply never existed
      .
      ever wonder why you are now his new chosen ones?
      how hes forsaken the Hebrews after that great long lineage and chatting to them personal like?
      then forgetting to tell them about his son?
      seriously?…his son?
      one might think that to be a rather important tid bit of info to pass on
      perhaps he has old timers…after all hes been around forever
      which brings up another point
      if your gawd has been around forever then why did it take him forever to create "man, this dirtball. and the universe…(all to serve man of course…but not all men just those that believe a certain way)
      .
      and theres a simple explanation for that as well

      September 22, 2014
  47. bobbyj

    Since the very definition of the word Science means ‘knowledge’, i.e., that which is observable, can be tested and its results repeatable, explain how in any sense, Science is equipped to determine the existence of a Divine Beiing or Man’s origin ? Explain your answer.

    September 19, 2014
    1. JumperK

      How in any sense is a Christian equipped to determine that thousands of gods don’t exist? Explain you answer.

      September 20, 2014
      1. bobbyj

        You ask how is a CHRISTIAN equipped to determine that thousands of gods don’t exist —-A CHRISTIAN will simply turn to the BIBLE. I know that it is pointless to quote to you any Bible verse since you do not believe the Bible, but that ancient book tells mankind plainly that there were those who were CALLED gods (idols), I Cor. 8:5-6) The Apostle Paul confronted those Athenians in the first century with their devotion offered to the UNKNOWN GOD, which he proceeded to introduce to them. There is , however, according to testimony of the Bible, only ONE GOD, the God of Creation. I realize you do not accept this as being valid since it comes from the Bible and if you would like to discuss it further, I would be most happy to do that, but this is the way a CHRISTIAN would explain the answer to your question. Now I will ask you this: How in any sense are you as an Atheist equipped to determine that thousands of gods DO EXIST ? Please explain your answer.

        September 22, 2014
        1. This comment has been deleted
        2. JumperK

          Using the bible to prove the bible; how very clever.
          -
          Atheists don’t claim thousands of gods exist. That statement should be self-explanatory to all but the dimmest believer.

          September 22, 2014
  48. bobbyj
    Evolution is not Science—it is a Religion. By reason of the fact that the word ‘Religion’ is defined as “any system of belief and practice”, then Humanism, Atheism, Evolution are all Religions.

    September 19, 2014
    1. JumperK

      Definition of Science: knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through experiments and observation
      -
      Definition of idiot: an utterly foolish or senseless person, or anyone that would claim a proven belief like evolution or gravity is a “religion”.

      September 20, 2014
      1. bobbyj

        I am amazed at this statement. Why is it that when a person is presented with a fact that he cannot readily answer, he will almost invariably begin to label his opposition as an ‘idiot’, utterly foolish or senseless person. That practice is much like the vicious attack Richard Dawkins launches upon all those who do not agree with his embrace of Evolution.
        Youl commit a very elementary error here….. you place GRAVITY in the same category as EVOLUTION. Gravity, as any true law of Physics has been observed, tested and is repeatable. It is PROVEN. EVOLUTION is a THEORY, an every changing one at that, that has not been and cannot be PROVEN. Many of Darwins assumptions have not to this day been PROVEN. ASSERTION is not PROOF.

        September 22, 2014
        1. JumperK

          Evolution is testable, observable, and repeatable. Your ignorance of that fact is not proof your god exists.

          September 22, 2014
        2. mrmacq

          they are both theories dinglenuts
          .
          try not to confuse the laymans definition of theory with the scientific one
          (hint…they are not near the same)
          .
          “A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. If enough evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, it moves to the next step—known as a theory—in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon.”
          .
          and there is ample evidence to support evolution
          “supported with repeated testing”
          (a ton more that that dusty book “thee buy bull”)

          September 22, 2014
          1. JumperK

            But it says in the bible that god exists mrmacq! There is that conflicting book the Quran, but we can ignore that, and the Torah, we can ignore that too.

            September 22, 2014
            1. mrmacq

              they are good at ignoring “evidence” that contradicts
              including that which is in that same dusty book

              September 22, 2014
    2. 29A

      Show your definition for atheism which says it is “a system of belief and practice”. Otherwise you’re just re-defining words to suit your world view, i.e. since you view the world in religious terms, so must everyone else.

      September 20, 2014
      1. bobbyj

        Since you seem to have a good working knowledge of your idea of science and religion, I am surprised that you do not know that the English word ‘Religion’ is not limited to belief of and about the supernatural or spiritual matters. For you information, here are a few definition that you can find:

        Set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe,

        A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:

        The body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: . A cause, principle, or activity
        pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

        An interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group

        A cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

        Religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence.[

        ,The English word “religion” enjoys considerable elasticity. Professor Vergilius Ferm, who was head of the Department of Philosophy at The College of Wooster, noted that one may be “religious” and “not believe in god (in any conventional sense)”

        You can readily confirm this information for yourself. A number of atheistic organizations have incorporated as “religious” entities in recent years in order to secure tax-exempt status. In July of 1999, the Freedom From Religion Foundation (Madison, Wisconsin) conducted a national mini-convention in San Francisco (about 150 people showed up). The meeting was punctuated with fervent services—the congregation waved their hands in the air, and sung hymns (like “Nothing Fails Like Faith”). A Bay Area journalist wrote a piece about the debacle under the title, “Nonbelievers keep their faith alive.”

        No disrespect is intended but one must conclude that ATHEISM is the ’NO GOD " Religion.

        September 22, 2014
        1. mrmacq

          you quite conveniently left out a very important part there
          “1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe,….. esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies,…”
          .
          atheism is the rejection of religions
          and science in no way can ever be called a religion
          (no matter how hard you guys try)

          September 22, 2014
          1. bobbyj

            I stated from the beginning that the English word Religion IS NOT LIMITED to the Supernatural or Spiritual. It can and does link to both but is NOT LIMITED to them. You need to read a little more carefully.

            September 22, 2014
            1. mrmacq

              you quite conveniently left out a very important part there
              “1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe,….. esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies,…”

              September 22, 2014
        2. 29A

          Even if you use the 3rd definition of religion in order to avoid the 1st definition’s, “belief in and reverence for a supernatural power”, look again at your definitions:
          .
          Set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe,
          A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
          The body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: . A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
          An interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group
          A cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
          Religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence.
          .
          Note that nearly definition contains some variant of “set of beliefs”. Atheism simply means “without god(s)”. That is a single item, not a set or collection of beliefs. Indeed, perhaps excepting “strong atheists”, who definitively assert there is no god(s), atheism is not a belief at all.
          .
          “You can readily confirm this information for yourself. A number of atheistic organizations have incorporated as “religious” entities in recent years in order to secure tax-exempt status. "

          .

          False. They incorporate under the IRS code 501© which is not exclusive to religious entities.
          .
          For instance, IRS 501©(3) allows such incorporation for any of the following:
          .
          Corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.
          http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title26/html/USCODE-2011-title26-subtitleA-chap1-subchapF-partI-sec501.htm

          September 22, 2014
          1. 29A

            Should read: Note that nearly every definition contains some variant of “set of beliefs”.
            .
            The Freedom from Religion Foundation incorporated as a IRS 501©(3) as an educational organization.

            September 22, 2014
            1. bobbyj

              Belief, Set of Beliefs, System of Belief. Atheists have a belief that God does not Exist, they believe that Evolution is the means by which we exist, they believe that Science supports their position on the origin of man and other ’ beliefs’. So it is proper to say that Atheists entertain a set of,or system of Belief(s). If not why not ?

              September 22, 2014
            2. bobbyj

              That is true. The Freedom from Religion Foundation incorporated under IRS 502c(3) as an Educational Organization, inclusive of Religion.

              September 22, 2014
          2. 29A

            “American Atheists receives tax-exempt status under Internal Revenue Code 501©(3), but because the organization is not classified as religious, it costs American Atheists, along with all other secular non-profits, significantly more money and time each year to keep that status because it must file a Form 990. "
            http://news.atheists.org/2013/11/20/press-release-atheists-go-to-court-against-irs/

            September 22, 2014
        3. 29A

          “Belief, Set of Beliefs, System of Belief. Atheists have a belief that God does not Exist, "
          .
          As I said above, strong atheists state definitively that god(s) don’t exist; weak atheists, such as myself, only say there’s no evidentiary support for god(s); thus it is not a belief.
          .
          “they believe that Evolution is the means by which we exist, "
          .
          The theory of evolution is separate from the abiogenesis hypothesis.
          .
          “they believe that Science supports their position on the origin of man and other ’ beliefs’. "
          .
          Science is always advancing. Acknowledging that it offers the best explanation yet for the whys and wherefores of the Universe, makes it useful. Since it is testable, it is knowledge and not a belief.
          .
          “So it is proper to say that Atheists entertain a set of,or system of Belief(s). If not why not ? "
          .
          No. They are useful tools, and limited, until such time as there’s a Theory of Everything.

          September 22, 2014
          1. bobbyj

            If you believe there is not evidenciary support for god(s), then you are an AGNOSTIC and not ATHEIST. Since you don’t have enough evidence to KNOW if God exists orthat God does not exist, then that leaves room for the alternative that GOD MAY EXIST after all.

            Science is a wonderful thing and has given the world much good, especially in the field of Medicine, as well as many other areas of advancement for the good of man kind. And also, you may not know or agree, but the Bible is Scientifically accurate and Historically correct in every subjec that it (The Bible) addresses. True Science (Knowledge) is to be applauded. But Science, relying upon the common theory of Evolution, is not equipped to determine the origin of man. At best, Science makes many assertions, has many theories (changing), unproved and unprovable, but mere assertions are not proof. Science fails in the area of Cause and Effect. Every Effect must have a Sufficient Cause. If there is Evidence of Design, then common sense and true Science would say ‘there was a Designer’. There are certain laws of Physics in the realm of Science that refute their own theories, such as the Laws of Thermodynamics. These are just a few of the many areas where Science fails in its claims. If the Theory of Evolution concerning the origin of humans is true, there would be millions of transitional fossil forms to see….but there are none. Why ? That’s just one example and this is only the tip of the iceberg.

            September 23, 2014
            1. JumperK

              “…but the Bible is Scientifically accurate and Historically correct in every subjec that it (The Bible) addresses.” What a crock of shit. Yes there are some accuracies of history in the bible, that doesn’t mean that they are all accurate (many are not). What scientific accuracies do you speak of? The bible got a lot of science wrong as well.
              -
              You fools with your stupidity of “millions of transitional fossils”. Again, you show your education is lacking; there are many transitional fossils. That we have any transitional fossils at all is not only proof, but is in itself amazing.
              -
              " If there is Evidence of Design, then common sense and true Science would say ‘there was a Designer’." There is no evidence of design. I wonder how your designer was designed and that designer was designed and that designer’s designer, etc. etc,

              September 23, 2014
        4. 29A

          “That is true. The Freedom from Religion Foundation incorporated under IRS 502c(3) as an Educational Organization, inclusive of Religion. "
          .
          It’s 501, a nd you’re presenting it backwards. The 501©(3) is a designation which includes religious and educational organizations. Basic rules for punctuation: there are commas between organizing for religious vs. educational purposes – indicating they are separate items.

          September 22, 2014
        5. 29A

          “If you believe there is not evidenciary support for god(s), then you are an AGNOSTIC and not ATHEIST. "
          .
          Tis a matter of preference, and I prefer the term atheist, that way there’s less confusion.
          .

          .
          Explicit negative/weak/soft atheists (in blue on the right) reject or eschew belief that any deities exist without actually asserting that “at least one deity exists” is a false statement.
          .
          Implicit negative/weak/soft atheists (in blue on the left) would include people (such as infants and some agnostics) who do not believe in a deity, but have not explicitly rejected such belief.
          .
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_atheism

          September 23, 2014
  49. JumperK

    bobbyj stated – “If you do not believe in Evolution, then your only alternative to the existence of all things is A DESIGNER/CREATOR. EVOLUTION is the basis for the existence of ATHEISM. However, one can claim to believe in God and also believe in some form of Evolution but that is a contradiction of belief.
    I must go to lunch now..”
    -
    That is a statement that suggests you are already out to lunch or at least a science illiterate. You may as well have said “If we came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?” Your understanding of evolution is that poor. Let me try to make it simple for you; EVOLUTION does not explain how life came to exist, only how it evolved.

    September 23, 2014
    1. bobbyj

      I really don’t think it is myself who is illiterate or whose ‘understanding of evolution’ is poor. We all know the word ‘evolution’ means ‘change’. But when you say ‘Evolution dooes not explain how life came to exist, only how it evolved’, you are playing a game of cemantics. Evolved from what to what ? Well, I will give you the definition that your friends in the ‘Scientific Community’ use, straight from the Science Channel -

      Science Channel

      “The theory of evolution seeks to explain the origin of life on Earth and the origin of different species. Despite the fact that most of the scientific community has regarded it as fact for more than a century, a large number of people still dispute the theory of evolution, and various public controversies have resulted from this disagreement.

      According to evolutionary theory, life began billions of years ago, when a group of chemicals inadvertently organized themselves into a self-replicating molecule. This tiny molecule gave rise to everything that has ever lived on the planet. Different and more complex organisms grew from this simple beginning through mutation of DNA and natural selection."

      That is the commonly accepted theory, view, opinion, definition, of the general Theory of Evolution being promoted, supported, embraced by the ‘Scientific Community’. You know that and I know that. The Theory of Evolution is not just the definition of the word, it is the common answer of the ‘Scientific Community’ for the existence of humans. We both know that. That theory attempts to show the ‘evolution or change , as you said, but from what to what ? From the beginning with the lowest form of life to the present’. In other words, The Origin of Life. You may not accept that but if not, then you need to talk to some of your friends in the ‘Scientific Community’:

      Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett etc. and many others. They will tell you very quickly what the ‘Theory of Evolution’ is.

      September 23, 2014
      1. JumperK

        You have said that all atheists believe in the evolutionary theory as the start of life; that is simply bullshit as there are numerous competing theories and hypothesis, of which any number of atheists may or may not support.
        -
        Your scientific and evolutionary ignorance is evident in your lack of knowledge of the demonstrable, repeatable, tests showing the fact of evolution. Science doesn’t give a shit if you believe in it; it deals in facts; unlike your demonstrably man made, evolving god.
        -
        Perhaps you can go back to wondering why there are still monkeys.

        September 23, 2014
  50. baltimorepplsblog

    Don’t you guys know all that arguing and you both or all involved opinion is the same as before this stupid discussion started

    September 27, 2014
  51. baltimorepplsblog

    Science and GOD are one in the same, science is GODS “magic”

    September 27, 2014
    1. JumperK

      And which of man’s many gods would you be babbling about?

      September 29, 2014
  52. hellspawn

    The bible got a lot of science wrong; rabbits do not chew cud, bats are not birds, snails don’t bloody well melt, the earth unlike the claims in the bible actually moves, and what is that shit about wind in storehouses? Give me science over the biblical nonsense any day.

    October 05, 2014
    1. JumperK

      Me too.

      October 05, 2014
  53. goodnews

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    INTERVIEW | BRETT SCHENCK

    “I Am Convinced That Life Was Designed by God”

    Brett Schenck is a retired environmental consultant in the United States. He studied the interdependency of plants, animals, and the environment. Why does he believe in a Creator? Awake! asked him about his science and his faith.

    What is your background?

    My father was a mechanical engineer. He often talked enthusiastically to me about math and science. As a boy, I was fascinated by the plants and animals in the creeks and pools near my home in New Paris, Ohio, U.S.A. So when I went to Purdue University, I chose to study ecology.

    Did religion interest you?

    Yes, it did. Dad encouraged me to study our Lutheran religion. I studied Koine (common) Greek, one of the languages in which the Bible was first written. I developed deep respect for the Bible.

    How did you view the theory of evolution?

    My church accepted it. My colleagues believed it. So I never questioned it. But I also believed in God. I had a foggy notion that the two beliefs were compatible. Although I respected the Bible, I didn’t think it came from God.

    What made you change your view of the Bible?

    Two of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Steve and Sandy, visited my wife, Debbie, and me. They showed us that the Bible, though not a science textbook, is scientifically accurate. For example, it says of God: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth.” (Isaiah 40:22) It also says: “He is . . . hanging the earth upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) At that time, I was using satellite photographs to study ecology, so these scriptures impressed me. They were written long before anyone photographed the circle of the earth hanging on nothing. As my wife and I studied the Bible with Steve and Sandy, I learned of prophecies that had come true, advice that works, and explanations that satisfied me. Gradually, I became convinced that the Bible is the Word of God.

    When did you change your mind about the origin of life?

    Eventually, Steve showed me the Bible’s clear statement: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground.” (Genesis 2:7) The first man has a documented life history. This raised the question: Is the Bible in harmony with scientific facts? Steve encouraged me to research the matter, so I did.

    What did you learn about evolution?

    Many things. To mention just one, the evolution theory attempts to explain the origin of species. Living things are made up of efficient organs, such as the heart, lungs, and eyes. Also, at the microscopic level, we see marvelously designed ‘machines’ within cells. Where do the designs for those come from? Evolutionists claim that the best mechanisms are automatically selected because the living things that have them survive better. But that idea does not answer the question: Where do the mechanisms come from? I learned that many scientists do not believe that the evolution theory answers that question. A professor of zoology confided to me that he did not believe any of the theories of evolution. However, he did not air his views for fear of losing his job.

    Does your knowledge of ecology strengthen your faith?

    Yes, it does. My work involved studying how living things depend on each other. On earth, all living things depend on something else. Consider flowers and bees, for example. The color, fragrance, nectar, and structure of flowers are designed to attract bees and to sprinkle them with pollen. Bees are designed to extract nectar and to take one flower’s pollen to another plant for fertilization. Clearly, the flowers and bees are designed to supply what the other needs.

    ‘The resilience of the entire system of life on earth convinces me that life was designed by God’
    In an ecosystem, we see interdependence on a vast scale. An ecosystem is an environment with a community of perhaps thousands of types of animals, plants, bacteria, and fungi. All animals depend on plants for food and oxygen, and most flowering plants depend on animals. Although ecosystems are exceedingly complex and the organisms in them are fragile, they may continue surviving for millennia. Even after damage by pollution, once the source of pollution is gone, a complex ecosystem soon develops again. When I think about the resilience of the entire system of life on earth, I am convinced that life was designed by God.

    Why did you become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

    I was deeply concerned about the way human society is ruining the environment. I knew that although ecosystems are resilient, they are not indestructible. I learned from Jehovah’s Witnesses that, according to the Scriptures, God will “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” (Revelation 11:1 Those words were important to me. As I continued studying the Bible, I gradually realized that the hope that the Bible presents is sure.

    I enjoy sharing my beliefs with others, and I have studied the Bible with some scientists. At age 55, I took early retirement to spend more time helping people to understand the Creator of life and his purpose for our magnificent earth. go to jw.org for more info

    January 06, 2015
  54. goodnews
    INTERVIEW | BRETT SCHENCK

    “I Am Convinced That Life Was Designed by God”

    Brett Schenck is a retired environmental consultant in the United States. He studied the interdependency of plants, animals, and the environment. Why does he believe in a Creator? Awake! asked him about his science and his faith.

    What is your background?

    My father was a mechanical engineer. He often talked enthusiastically to me about math and science. As a boy, I was fascinated by the plants and animals in the creeks and pools near my home in New Paris, Ohio, U.S.A. So when I went to Purdue University, I chose to study ecology.

    Did religion interest you?

    Yes, it did. Dad encouraged me to study our Lutheran religion. I studied Koine (common) Greek, one of the languages in which the Bible was first written. I developed deep respect for the Bible.

    How did you view the theory of evolution?

    My church accepted it. My colleagues believed it. So I never questioned it. But I also believed in God. I had a foggy notion that the two beliefs were compatible. Although I respected the Bible, I didn’t think it came from God.

    What made you change your view of the Bible?

    Two of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Steve and Sandy, visited my wife, Debbie, and me. They showed us that the Bible, though not a science textbook, is scientifically accurate. For example, it says of God: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth.” (Isaiah 40:22) It also says: “He is . . . hanging the earth upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) At that time, I was using satellite photographs to study ecology, so these scriptures impressed me. They were written long before anyone photographed the circle of the earth hanging on nothing. As my wife and I studied the Bible with Steve and Sandy, I learned of prophecies that had come true, advice that works, and explanations that satisfied me. Gradually, I became convinced that the Bible is the Word of God.

    When did you change your mind about the origin of life?

    Eventually, Steve showed me the Bible’s clear statement: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground.” (Genesis 2:7) The first man has a documented life history. This raised the question: Is the Bible in harmony with scientific facts? Steve encouraged me to research the matter, so I did.

    What did you learn about evolution?

    Many things. To mention just one, the evolution theory attempts to explain the origin of species. Living things are made up of efficient organs, such as the heart, lungs, and eyes. Also, at the microscopic level, we see marvelously designed ‘machines’ within cells. Where do the designs for those come from? Evolutionists claim that the best mechanisms are automatically selected because the living things that have them survive better. But that idea does not answer the question: Where do the mechanisms come from? I learned that many scientists do not believe that the evolution theory answers that question. A professor of zoology confided to me that he did not believe any of the theories of evolution. However, he did not air his views for fear of losing his job.

    Does your knowledge of ecology strengthen your faith?

    Yes, it does. My work involved studying how living things depend on each other. On earth, all living things depend on something else. Consider flowers and bees, for example. The color, fragrance, nectar, and structure of flowers are designed to attract bees and to sprinkle them with pollen. Bees are designed to extract nectar and to take one flower’s pollen to another plant for fertilization. Clearly, the flowers and bees are designed to supply what the other needs.

    ‘The resilience of the entire system of life on earth convinces me that life was designed by God’
    In an ecosystem, we see interdependence on a vast scale. An ecosystem is an environment with a community of perhaps thousands of types of animals, plants, bacteria, and fungi. All animals depend on plants for food and oxygen, and most flowering plants depend on animals. Although ecosystems are exceedingly complex and the organisms in them are fragile, they may continue surviving for millennia. Even after damage by pollution, once the source of pollution is gone, a complex ecosystem soon develops again. When I think about the resilience of the entire system of life on earth, I am convinced that life was designed by God.

    Why did you become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

    I was deeply concerned about the way human society is ruining the environment. I knew that although ecosystems are resilient, they are not indestructible. I learned from Jehovah’s Witnesses that, according to the Scriptures, God will “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” (Revelation 11:1 Those words were important to me. As I continued studying the Bible, I gradually realized that the hope that the Bible presents is sure.

    I enjoy sharing my beliefs with others, and I have studied the Bible with some scientists. At age 55, I took early retirement to spend more time helping people to understand the Creator of life and his purpose for our magnificent earth.
    INTERVIEW | BRETT SCHENCK
    “I Am Convinced That Life Was Designed by God”

    Brett Schenck is a retired environmental consultant in the United States. He studied the interdependency of plants, animals, and the environment. Why does he believe in a Creator? Awake! asked him about his science and his faith.

    What is your background?

    My father was a mechanical engineer. He often talked enthusiastically to me about math and science. As a boy, I was fascinated by the plants and animals in the creeks and pools near my home in New Paris, Ohio, U.S.A. So when I went to Purdue University, I chose to study ecology.

    Did religion interest you?

    Yes, it did. Dad encouraged me to study our Lutheran religion. I studied Koine (common) Greek, one of the languages in which the Bible was first written. I developed deep respect for the Bible.

    How did you view the theory of evolution?

    My church accepted it. My colleagues believed it. So I never questioned it. But I also believed in God. I had a foggy notion that the two beliefs were compatible. Although I respected the Bible, I didn’t think it came from God.

    What made you change your view of the Bible?

    Two of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Steve and Sandy, visited my wife, Debbie, and me. They showed us that the Bible, though not a science textbook, is scientifically accurate. For example, it says of God: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth.” (Isaiah 40:22) It also says: “He is . . . hanging the earth upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) At that time, I was using satellite photographs to study ecology, so these scriptures impressed me. They were written long before anyone photographed the circle of the earth hanging on nothing. As my wife and I studied the Bible with Steve and Sandy, I learned of prophecies that had come true, advice that works, and explanations that satisfied me. Gradually, I became convinced that the Bible is the Word of God.

    When did you change your mind about the origin of life?

    Eventually, Steve showed me the Bible’s clear statement: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground.” (Genesis 2:7) The first man has a documented life history. This raised the question: Is the Bible in harmony with scientific facts? Steve encouraged me to research the matter, so I did.

    What did you learn about evolution?

    Many things. To mention just one, the evolution theory attempts to explain the origin of species. Living things are made up of efficient organs, such as the heart, lungs, and eyes. Also, at the microscopic level, we see marvelously designed ‘machines’ within cells. Where do the designs for those come from? Evolutionists claim that the best mechanisms are automatically selected because the living things that have them survive better. But that idea does not answer the question: Where do the mechanisms come from? I learned that many scientists do not believe that the evolution theory answers that question. A professor of zoology confided to me that he did not believe any of the theories of evolution. However, he did not air his views for fear of losing his job.

    Does your knowledge of ecology strengthen your faith?

    Yes, it does. My work involved studying how living things depend on each other. On earth, all living things depend on something else. Consider flowers and bees, for example. The color, fragrance, nectar, and structure of flowers are designed to attract bees and to sprinkle them with pollen. Bees are designed to extract nectar and to take one flower’s pollen to another plant for fertilization. Clearly, the flowers and bees are designed to supply what the other needs.

    ‘The resilience of the entire system of life on earth convinces me that life was designed by God’
    In an ecosystem, we see interdependence on a vast scale. An ecosystem is an environment with a community of perhaps thousands of types of animals, plants, bacteria, and fungi. All animals depend on plants for food and oxygen, and most flowering plants depend on animals. Although ecosystems are exceedingly complex and the organisms in them are fragile, they may continue surviving for millennia. Even after damage by pollution, once the source of pollution is gone, a complex ecosystem soon develops again. When I think about the resilience of the entire system of life on earth, I am convinced that life was designed by God.

    Why did you become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

    I was deeply concerned about the way human society is ruining the environment. I knew that although ecosystems are resilient, they are not indestructible. I learned from Jehovah’s Witnesses that, according to the Scriptures, God will “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” (Revelation 11:1 Those words were important to me. As I continued studying the Bible, I gradually realized that the hope that the Bible presents is sure.

    I enjoy sharing my beliefs with others, and I have studied the Bible with some scientists. At age 55, I took early retirement to spend more time helping people to understand the Creator of life and his purpose for our magnificent earth.
    go to jw.org for more info

    January 06, 2015
    1. goforth77dogreatthings

      Amen…..nicely explained and absolutely true.

      April 15, 2015
    2. JumperK

      Really? You use one scientist believer as a counter point? There are thousands of scientists that don’t believe in a creator; in fact the majority of scientists don’t believe in a creator.

      April 15, 2015
    3. JumperK

      Correction, you have not used a scientist, just another cult members opinion about his god.

      April 15, 2015
  55. breakingawayentirely

    My response was for jumperK

    January 14, 2015
  56. thirumanarchunan

    Science and religion are big issues: science is required to satisfy a human progressive reason and the same way religion is necessary to account for the large scale stupidity that is inherent in any human society. There is nothing to get frustrated sunce religion can be viewed as a bundle of useful lies again for masses. Always the multitude have natural inclination towards usefulness rather than the fact or truth.

    March 02, 2015
    1. JumperK

      Useful lies to control the foolish I would say. Religion has given us nothing but lies and refuses to face serious questions or accept the fact that science has solved more of man’s needs, questions and desires than religion ever will.

      April 14, 2015
  57. monsooncat

    I personally think social sciences are actually quite useful too in understanding things that is in comparison to natural sciences.

    May 09, 2015
    1. JumperK

      Agree.

      May 15, 2015
  58. fadiaali22222

    thanks for you
    http://coehuman.uodiyala.edu.iq/

    May 17, 2015
    1. fadiaali22222

      http://coehuman.uodiyala.edu.iq/

      May 17, 2015
      1. JumperK

        What is this shit?

        May 19, 2015
  59. kdas

    People who wrote the Bible didn’t knew anything about science, so we don’t need to be “Mr Perfects” about every word in it. Also, the original texts (THAT ARE NOT IN ENGLISH) were written in a time the knowledge of people wasn’t like today! The problem is that most people think that religion and Bible are the same thing! Religion made almost every american think that Christ’s name is Jesus, while there is no such letter with a sound of “J” in hebraic. Religion made we believe that Jesus is white, while he was hidden in Egypt (a place of black people)! EVEN THE BIBLE proves that he was black, comparing he to the color of a special stone! But the reality created by painters entered in the people’s mind as “fix fact”. There is a TV series called “Antient Aliens”. It theorizes that gods of those people like astecs and mayas were actually aliens, and it’s most probably true! There’s no such word on the Bible that proves OR contradicts it, but people insist that the “angels” have feather wings, while the Bible doesn’t even describe those wings! Most of the scientists don’t like religion (some does) because people insist that God is that guy almost naked in the clouds, that can send you directly into hell if you don’t obey him. And who’s gonna torture you in there? “Of course”, they say, “it’s Satan!”. SATAN IS GOD’S ENEMY! Why would he torture someone who disobeys his enemy’s orders? Because of that, I’ve already found people that thought Satan and God were friends (Really)! And that’s why scientists (most) don’t like religion. Religion (most of them) is believing everything a “important” person says, and don’t question about it. Faith is believing something, even when not seeing it. It’s needes more faith in the Evolution theory than in religion. Evolution is possible, and nothing denies or proves that god haven’t used it or the Big Bang. Also, there are a lot of tests that prove it! But there’s no fact in it that depicts change of kinds (with “kinds” I mean the difference between birds and lions. Yeah, it’s a big difference, but most people will answer this question with adaptations, not change of kinds).
    Why to believe in God? Science haven’t proved the origin of the Universe yet (Where did the Big Bang came from, if it’s real?), and it will never explain scientifically, because it’s impossible to make matter from the nothing (with out methods).

    My main theme about this: The boundaries between religion and science should be knocked down! Logic and faith should walk together.

    May 20, 2015
    1. JumperK

      Logic and faith can’t walk together because belief in something without evidence (faith) is not logical.

      May 23, 2015
  60. abaddon

    The moon landing was not in the Holy Bible, because it was the work of the devil. There is much evidence that proves that the moon landing was a hoax.

    June 17, 2015
    1. JumperK

      Name any evidence that the moon landing was a hoax, use your own words.Add a reply…

      June 18, 2015
  61. jakedh

    I am a Christian, now, but I was an atheist until about a month ago.

    There is no religious argument that will ever win a debate with an atheist’s science. I know, I’ve been on the atheist’s side of the argument. Most of the time, all that happens when a Christian tries to argue an atheist into believing is A.) proving that most Christians really aren’t that educated B.) making yourself and other Christians out to be fools (and often times bigots, too) and C.) pushing that atheist farther away from Christ with hate and anger. Like I said, I’ve been there.

    The comment section here seems to be full of ignorant atheists, too. (not naming any names) That was a shock. For example, how can you claim to use the Big Bang as evidence, if you do not fully understand what the Big Bang Theory actually is?

    Look, atheists, I’m not going to argue with you. Science is science. Trust me, I’ve spent my entire life being an atheist, and I’m an INTP personality (though I don’t trust those types of tests to be 100% accurate), if that gives you a clue as to how I think. (You can look it up)

    I had a moment where I let my guard down, I opened myself up to God, and I experienced Him. I can’t explain it with science, and it isn’t quantifiable. I know all of the theories behind why a person may think they have “experienced” God, and I always have been and always will be a skeptic. Then and even now, I struggle with faith. I’m not a zealot or a nutjob. Since I have became a Christian, I have continued to experience God. I find that when it happens, it is undeniable. The strange thing is, the things I found disappointing in many Christians before, I find even more so, now.

    Christianity should never be used as a veil for bigotry. Every day, I see people clothe themselves in the banner of Christianity to justify hate and intolerance. Christ said (paraphrasing) the two most important commandments were to love God with all that you are, and love others as you love yourself. It says nothing of limiting that love to those you deem worthy. So, atheists, I am sorry for the persecution you feel from the Christian community, but I assure you, Christ loves you, even if you don’t believe in Him.

    I hope that everyone here finds something of value in what I wrote, even if you disagree.

    God bless you all.

    July 02, 2015
  62. mrmacq

    crap dude but this has turned out to be a long thread
    with zilch for evidence from the gawd believers
    other than “trust me”

    July 20, 2015
    1. JumperK

      And they ignore the point of the post.

      July 25, 2015
  63. tatianavaleska

    http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20150601/#?insight[search_id]=07121dc1-8e54-4c92-8a6d-650338c38ba6&insight[search_result_index]=0

    August 02, 2015
  64. tatianavaleska

    go there copy n paste link lol ^^

    August 02, 2015
  65. tatianavaleska

    i understand where your coming from @JumperK

    August 02, 2015
  66. tatianavaleska

    download the PDF so you can read it on your own tell me what you think !

    August 02, 2015
  67. mashalalshammari

    Interesting,
    You decided the moon motion is too important and holy books should included it.
    Well, holy books tell you who made the moon at the first place. Also they tell you that there is someone created your brain to think and find things like the moon motion

    August 25, 2015
    1. JumperK

      The book about Goldilocks and the three bears tells us who ate the bear’s porridge, which makes it as likely as your holy books. Some native religions say a beaver created the earth’s land, a tale which has the same supporting evidence for it as your magic man creation story.

      August 30, 2015
  68. payes27

    I want to join this debate. hehehe science needs humans to believe in it otherwise there would be no funding for scientific research.

    September 18, 2015
    1. JumperK

      That makes no sense at all.

      September 19, 2015
  69. cliffordcclaven

    I would like an explanation of non elements also.

    September 20, 2015
    1. JumperK

      Such as?

      September 20, 2015
  70. resistance_principle

    I do believe that religion represents the nobler aspirations of human beings. It is an attempt to create a common code amongst us to create better communication. But it serves its purpose only crudely, and is in the end a mere noble failure. Science serves its end best because it uses the language of measurement and that’s the best language there is. However it does not educate us very well on issues of morality, in this it falls painfully short.
    And philosophy has also failed in this regard.
    We need a new logical religion to educate us on how we should live our daily lives.

    September 25, 2015
    1. JumperK

      The Abrahamic god is no example to follow if one wants to be moral. That god is a genocidal monster who would torture forever anyone for not believing in him, hardly a moral stance.
      Science explains why we act morally without gods.
      Logical religion? In both logic and issues of morality, religion falls painfully short.

      September 25, 2015
      1. resistance_principle

        It does, but only because it wasn’t informed by science. Just like certain technology from the past is backward compared to the amazing technology we currently use. Religion has to be replaced by something better that can show us the way and can mobilize people and give people a sense of community. Freedom, individuality, these very abstract rhetorical statements are no replacement for religion.

        September 25, 2015
        1. JumperK

          The replacement for religion is science, because the only thing religion offers is empty promises and ignorance. Science, not religion, has improved the lives of humanity.

          September 26, 2015
  71. resistance_principle

    Where there is anger, where there is rage, there is the raw substance of the mind. Religion attempted to deal with this substance. But as we can see by the contents of this blog, it failed miserably.

    September 25, 2015
    1. JumperK

      Religion failed miserably because religion is an empty vessel.

      September 26, 2015
  72. resistance_principle

    The foremost scientists of our day admit that science has failed to properly qualify and define the human mind. So science has also failed in this regard. Failure abounds and what remains is anger and frustration. Its called the resistance principle and its the animal instinct of territoriality. When you take away respect for a higher authority that’s what you are left with.

    September 26, 2015
    1. JumperK

      Science admits it’s mistakes and moves forward, religion claims it has all the answers, not changing in 2500 years. Just because science has not yet achieved something doesn’t mean it won’t. Religion has yet to achieve anything but division and strife; all over an imaginary higher power.

      September 26, 2015
  73. resistance_principle

    Science will only understand the human mind when it looks at religion as something more than just a grand conspiracy against progress.

    September 26, 2015
    1. JumperK

      That is a statement without supporting evidence, much like your god.

      September 27, 2015
  74. riabrea

    Reply to original post: You were so close to understanding and answering your own uncertainties but toward the end of your post you fell back into a contradiction of what your first paragraph was trying to prove. The real question that should be asked is “Why?” Ask why to everything we know as the truth. The bible leaves out a lot of things that we know are hard facts, proven either by physical evidence, science or behavior. BUT as a former christian, it’s an abomination to ask why god did this or said that. A christian should never question god. If god said “this is the way” then his way is the way…no questions asked. If christians don’t do what god says, they will die and burn in a fire pit forever. The question “Why?” is a simple, one word question that is more powerful than people realize. Think about it…why are people discouraged from asking “Why” but are encouraged to accept the “truth” to be whatever we are told is the truth? Example: “Freedom of speech” is a great perc of being an American but WE know that our freedom is limited and controlled. The people that wake up and realize that we have been programmed to accept what’s written (the law…the word…the norm) and not accept what we know is right, while also understanding why we were programmed in the first place, should be scared to admit it in public. lol Thinking like that allows one to unlock doors that are hidden for a reason.

    December 10, 2015
  75. bloodandrain

    Wow I literally was reading this blog for about 45 minutes. Interesting to see all these different opinions on such a sensitive topic. I love reading this kind of stuff.

    February 19, 2016
  76. straightlineupfront

    I be a gibber gob bumbler do be a do be don’t play my bodily how dat.

    February 28, 2016
  77. jeremiahbenjamin

    It is acceptable to deny said “holy text” but to assert science as the only aspect of proof in this life you will find to be illogical.

    February 29, 2016
    1. JumperK

      “Illogical”? How so?

      February 29, 2016
  78. pughugs

    Me no gets dis. 😗

    March 17, 2016
  79. unrestrictedfreeagent

    The problem with “truth” is that is only identified through current filters. Truth and fact only exist through public perception; it WAS a fact that the earth was flat. Depending where you are, how we depict truth is also relative; George Washington, the first president of the USA, is a nation icon and hero to those in American but he is perceived as a defector and traitor to many others around the world.
    Religion migrates just as science migrates regardless of the existence of an all-powerful God. Consider monogamy and the layers of social acceptance that entails. Divorce was so rare a century ago that it often stigmatized the individual regardless of the reason; now it is not just common but rather the norm. The notion of God’s forgiveness is often taken in vein and due to the social ideations in many countries with instant gratification; not having an immediate consequence demeans the term forgiveness. Many of those who find themselves in jail or prison often claim to have been saved or found God yet they recidivism rates for many offenses far exceed that of those who remain compliant.
    If you choose to use the scientific approach to invalidate the existence of God, then you must abide by the standards of science. It is not the duty of the individual presenting the theory to prove their theory but rather the duty of disproving it falls to those who refute the ideation. Even Steven Hawkins will tell you that he cannot say God does not exist because he cannot disprove his existence.
    The argument of science versus religion is not only premature but also too broad. Is it the argument that the morals and virtues taught by such religions are incorrect? Is it the fatalistic approach of the Bible and/or other holy texts? Is it that Jesus existed or that he is what he claims? Logically, if you determine that everything else more than likely is true than you are bound to the fair and logical determination that other components must be. Calling God to strike you down to prove his existence demonstrates nothing; write a letter to the president/prime minister or whoever in power and see if they answer you. That does not make their existence conditional.

    April 11, 2016
    1. JumperK

      We are not discussing “truth”, we are discussing evidence. The evidence shows that religion does migrate, yet advances nothing in regards to man’s knowledge. Religion has remained stagnate. Christianity would be as recognizable to a 2500 year old man today as it would be in his own time, while the evidence and advances of science would stagger him.
      It is not up to the non-believer to disprove the existence of gods, that falls squarely on the shoulders of the persons making the claim of their existence.

      April 11, 2016
  80. abdulbatinosmanbey

    I guess Bellarmine should go back and learn Hebrew and find out how the birth of Jesus took place. But, I don’t see why science and religion have to be pinned against one another remember science had some wacky ideas too ounce upon a time and many Alchemists were religious people that paved the way for modern science. Isaac Newton was one such person who not only wrote about Alchemy but Magic and he invented his own form of Christianity it resembles Unitarianism. The Qur’an does talk about the process of evolution. I think when people get stuck in dogma, stop realizing that we are suppose to keep growing and that’s how you glorify God that’s when the trouble begins.
    Also the Bible never claimed the world was flat, it says in the Psalms, and different parts of the scriptures that it’s round. It was the elite for some odd reason that insisted the world was flat even though the BOOK said otherwise.

    June 11, 2016
    1. JumperK

      The Quran said fuck all about evolution.
      The only way you can climb the highest mountain and see all the world or its four corners (as the bible states) is if the world is flat.

      June 12, 2016
      1. abdulbatinosmanbey

        Four corners are metaphorical the Bible says the earth is round Isaiah 40:22
        Evolution in the Qur’an http://www.cosmology-theory-evolution-quran.com/

        June 17, 2016
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  84. mikegoldscheitter

    The main issue is, I believe, that evangelical Christians don’t care if scientists do experiments and generate data and facts. They still believe in an unseen being that governs their lives and should do the same for all of us heathens. Whats wrong with us? just as easily rolls off their lips as what’s wrong with them off of ours.

    July 03, 2016
    1. JumperK

      Little things like “facts and theory” confuse those who claim faith and are best ignored to continue belief in god/gods.

      July 04, 2016
  85. mikegoldscheitter

    One other thing: since when does “spirituality” exist in only one form? I’m an atheist but believe in the spirituality of the universe. Should I be drawn, quartered, and guillotined?

    Don’t answer that.

    July 03, 2016
  86. theboyzero

    Well according to the Bible, 2 of every species of living organism on this planet got onto one Ark, which, according to maths attained from readings spread through the story of ’Noah’s Ark’, would have meant that an average each living creature would have had about 6.5mm of space each.
    Brilliant.

    July 18, 2016
    1. JumperK

      Yet people believe that crap. That doesn’t even include the animals and insects that require very specific heat and humidity to survive.

      July 20, 2016
  87. liyalbis

    That’s hard! For me, between Science and Religion, I believe Religion the most. Because without god, there will be no Science and latest technologies. That’s my opinion.

    October 04, 2016
    1. JumperK

      How old are you and what level of education do you have?

      October 05, 2016
  88. liyalbis

    are there any active users in this forum discussion? Hey

    October 04, 2016
  89. yasindenis

    Blind godless science, religion without science is blind

    A. Einshtein

    November 18, 2016
  90. yasindenis

    the sciene made much about to explain universe but still not in high level as mush as it needs to explain What is God ..

    i make you a cake – the sciene explains what kinf of materials i need, how much time i need to cook in how many degrees ..

    but the sciene never answer why i make you a cake … so as A.E. said the sciene is not enough -

    November 18, 2016
    1. JumperK

      Why does science need to explain “What is God”? Science doesn’t make a claim that god is or is not.
      Your cake analogy dos not make sense as god doesn’t explain why you make a cake either. Science may not currently explain why we do what we do, though some branches are making inroads in the matter, and may soon have the answers to why we are motivated to do what we do.
      It takes science to bake a cake, not gods.

      November 18, 2016
      1. yasindenis

        of course it takes science to bake a cake, not god
        but you miss the point, it is not how to bake .. how to bake is just one pixel of the whole picture

        the science make clear every time more detaily and wonderful the mechanical process .. thats why we need to learn more and more eventually to get more powerfull believer of this sistems` operator

        November 18, 2016
        1. JumperK

          There is no evidence of an “operator”.

          November 18, 2016
          1. yasindenis

            but there is a consciousness and intet .. and there is no coinsidense
            try to press your keyboards buttons randomly, you never write a poem ..

            for exemple :

            ldhfaksdhfikusdhfuisdyfh wefhp[ wEpy hDsCKDBKDBSVHCBVXSXZM B\ …

            November 18, 2016
            1. JumperK

              Your point is what?

              November 18, 2016
  91. tiamet

    And to think what poor Galileo went thru to disprove this. Aren’t the Roman Catholics wonderful christians?

    April 25, 2017
    1. JumperK

      Not just the RCs.

      April 25, 2017
  92. JumperK

    Where knowledge ends; religion begins.

    May 09, 2013
    1. bobbyj

      Might we change the statement to say: Where Reason and Revelation (Knowledge) is REJECTED, the RELIGION OF ATHEISM begins.

      September 22, 2014
      1. mrmacq

        dumbass
        atheism is not a religion
        its the rejection of ALL religions

        do none of you own a dictionary?
        theres free ones on line

        September 22, 2014
        1. bobbyj

          These definitions came from on-line dictionaries.

          Is Atheism a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe ? Do Atheist teach that the Universe is self-existent, that man ‘evolved’ from non-life ?

          Is Atheism A specific fundamental set of beliefs generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects ? And isn’t Evolution chief among those beliefs ?

          Isn’t Atheism a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith ? Do you not vigorously defend your position ?

          Atheism fits the definitions of ‘Religion’ in every facet of its philosophy.

          September 22, 2014
          1. JumperK

            No, to all your definitions.

            July 27, 2015
        2. bobbyj
          Go back and read carefully the definitions that I gave. I also stated that the English word ‘Religion’ IS NOT LIMITED to the Supernatrual or Spiritual. Of course it is used in conjuntion with reference to a Deity but NOT LIMITED TO THAT. You need to read a little more carefully.

          September 22, 2014
        3. bobbyj

          It is the rejection of all Religions that acknowledge the existence of the God of the Bible. Otherwise, your belief that God does not Exist is a RELIGION, its principle doctrine being EVOLUTION.

          September 22, 2014
          1. mrmacq

            and youre still out to lunch
            .
            “It is the rejection of all Religions that acknowledge the existence of the God of the Bible”
            most stupid statement of the day
            .
            did that somehow make some sort of sense to you?
            .
            PS
            one can be an atheist (not believing in higher deities) and an opponent to the theory of evolution
            .
            “your belief that God does not Exist is a RELIGION
            even saying it ten thousand more times will still not make it so
            atheism is the exact opposite, dullweed

            September 22, 2014
          2. mrmacq

            atheism is the rejection of ALL gods
            not just your gawd of the buy bull
            but I know…you guys like to feel special
            .
            let me guess…youre a born agin aint cha?

            September 22, 2014
          3. bobbyj

            mrmacq says:
            “and youre still out to lunch
            .
            “It is the rejection of all Religions that acknowledge the existence of the God of the Bible”
            most stupid statement of the day
            .
            did that somehow make some sort of sense to you?
            .
            PS
            one can be an atheist (not believing in higher deities) and an opponent to the theory of evolution
            .
            “your belief that God does not Exist is a RELIGION”
            even saying it ten thousand more times will still not make it so
            atheism is the exact opposite, dullweed”

            You have trouble comprehending plain English. You say that Atheists reject ALL religions. That certainly would include any religion that accepts the existence of God, would it not ? Atheists quite possibly might accept some religion that DOES NOT believe in God or gods. I don’t know about that as you only could answer that. But if you are Atheist, you reject any religion that accepts or acknowledges the existence or belief in God, or at least so you say.

            No one CANNOT be an Atheist and still be opposed to the theory of Evolution, since Evolution is the Atheist answer to the existence of the world and all that is in it. If you do not believe in Evolution, then your only alternative to the existence of all things is A DESIGNER/CREATOR. EVOLUTION is the basis for the existence of ATHEISM. However, one can claim to believe in God and also believe in some form of Evolution but that is a contradiction of belief.
            I must go to lunch now.

            September 22, 2014
          4. mrmacq

            “since Evolution is the Atheist answer to the existence of the world "
            .
            so wrong
            oh so terribly wrong
            evolution is simply how life evolved on this world
            nothing to do with how life evolved on other worlds nor how the universe was created
            nor how this dirtball we call earth came to be
            for that is simply celestial mechanics
            everything that has mass has gravity
            gravity tends to pull at other mass until theres no more mass within that gravities influence
            and of course evolution has absolutely nothing to do with gravity
            suggestion
            go read a fucking book before you start sounding the complete fool

            September 23, 2014
      2. JumperK

        Change the statement anyway you wish bj, it still amounts to the fact that the invisible and the nonexistent look the same.

        September 22, 2014
        1. bobbyj

          I have yet to know positively if you are ATHEIST (God does not Exist) or AGNOSTIC (Don’t know if enough evidence exists to believe God exists) Which is it ? the true ATHEIST says : I know that God does not exist. Do you make that statement ?

          September 22, 2014
          1. radman

            Not at all true. the Atheist says he/she has no belief in any gods. The Agnostic is unsure.

            November 19, 2014
  93. JumperK

    A book of moral judgment? There is nothing “Moral” about the god in the bible; the bible is nothing more than a blood soaked horror story, which stymied the advance of science and continues to produce ignorance.

    September 22, 2013
    1. 0mgurd34d

      JumperK teach me your ways please

      April 10, 2014
      1. JumperK

        Ask and yea shall receive. What do you want to know?

        April 10, 2014
        1. 0mgurd34d

          I want to know your divine ways of articulation.

          April 11, 2014
          1. JumperK

            Sorry, some secrets must be kept for the deity; I work in mysterious ways.

            April 11, 2014
  94. JumperK

    Hi binx. I look at the “spirituality” claim as a cop-out. Many claiming to be spiritual still believe in a specific religion, but refuse to defend their stance or beliefs.

    June 09, 2014
    1. bobbyj

      I believe in a ‘specific religion’ and I am ready to defend my ‘stance or belief’. You seem to be a person worthy of debate so state what it is you would like to have defended. Let me suggest something which I know will enliven and incense you and all your Atheist followers.
      It is this: Since Atheists deny the God of Creation, they must have a reason for this world and all that is in it. Since they could not accept the fact that God created it, the only alternative was EVOLUTION—-That is, they said it all came about by ACCIDENT, with natural forces operating over many Millions of years, with Something coming from Nothing. In a world that is overflowing with the evidence of DESIGN, the Atheist denies a DESIGNER, God. Thus came to be the Religion of Atheism and its offspring, Evolution. (By the way, How much ‘faith’ does it take to believe what the Atheist MUST believe in order to be an Atheist ? ) Read it carefully, gentlemen, and offer your best shot. And please, try to refrain from the childish practice of name calling, labeling your opponent as ’stupid, idiot, etc. I do enjoy discussing these critical matters with others and will not resort to labels.

      September 22, 2014
      1. mrmacq

        you’ve mixed a few scientific theories with other scientific theories
        to which they don’t belong
        and have nothing to do with each other
        .
        in typical fashion of the religidiots

        September 23, 2014
    2. breakingawayentirely

      Wrong I am a very spiritual person and I believe one may use religious books as a sort of morality check but since they have went through revisions and originally recorded by man i do not 100% trust their accuracy
      Yes i believe in the ultimate creator that dense energy which caused the big bang If you disagree that is your right but it shows much about your intellect as i read over your aggressive intolerant and hateful responses. Essentially you are breeding the same intolerance and persecution against those who have something to believe in. Maybe if you explore yourself with open mind without the denial shutdown and regression you have repeatedly fallen into over the course of this long and pointless cock measuring contest between believers and non, you might love yourself a little more and become more of a tolerant person rather than spend the rest of your life bitter and resentful of anyone and everyone who are secure in faith or any belief. You should look hard at your life and ask yourself this, are my views in life making me happy? Remember, happy people do not treat others as i have seen you do. And why do you even blog discuss when you clearly despise all beliefs contradicting your own and are incapable of debating in an educated informative or even reasonable manner? I love you and I hope you find what you need to acheive peace

      January 14, 2015
      1. JumperK

        breakingawayentirely “And why do you even blog discuss when you clearly despise all beliefs contradicting your own and are incapable of debating in an educated informative or even reasonable manner?”
        Present an intelligent comment on why my initial post is incorrect and I will happily debate it. I don’t have high hopes seeing your posts so far have been pseudo-intellectual observations about my supposed emotional state, but feel free to give it a go.

        April 14, 2015
  95. JumperK

    The bible is in no way a source of knowledge. We don’t need the superstitious nonsense and knowledge suppressing dogma for anything other than a warning about following religion.

    June 15, 2014
    1. mikegoldscheitter

      It’s perhaps the most un-substantiated book with the most influence ever written. I’m astonished people take it as fact.

      July 03, 2016
  96. JumperK

    Science doesn’t need anything more than man’s thirst for knowledge. I have no idea what the rest of your message is trying to convey as it makes no sense to me; your conscience may be shaded, but so is your message.

    August 25, 2014
  97. JumperK

    Try using plain English.

    August 25, 2014
  98. JumperK

    What is your point?

    October 28, 2014
  99. JumperK

    One superstitious event gets explained and the religious simply move the goal posts.

    May 03, 2015
  100. JumperK

    Nope, just matter.

    July 27, 2015
  101. JumperK

    Such as?

    July 27, 2015
    1. JumperK

      You claim that there is a nonelement to life, so what is it?

      July 27, 2015
    2. JumperK

      Are you not capable of using your own words?

      July 28, 2015
  102. JumperK

    Such as?

    April 02, 2016